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Disarming USA (Read 96447 times)
Panther
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #705 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 10:55am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 10:22am:
Panther wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 9:43am:
In America Gun ownership is an individual Right, where as here in Australia it is a granted Privilege administered & controlled completely by the government.



I fail to see how this state of affairs is a problem. Car ownership is a privilege that is administered and controlled completely by the government. Home ownership is a privilege that is administered and controlled completely by the government, why should Gun ownership be any different?


The Right of Free Men to Protect themselves, protect their lives, is not conditional.

This was understood by America's Founding Fathers, who were founding a new country, founded on the principals of Freedom & Liberty, after shedding off the rule of the tyrannical English Monarchy.

Their beliefs on the subject are firmly entrenched in their writings on the subject, & if you need further proof of their motivations I suggest you look up the Federalist Papers for starters, then traverse the numerous statements made by the Founding Fathers themselves related to the subject.

This is the statement that acknowledged the Right of Free Men to self-defense, a Right that predates the Constitution itself.

...


Firearms were conceived primarily for self-defense.  Any other use is secondary.

You may not agree with the Right to self-defense, but then again you don't have to for the Right to exist.




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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #706 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 10:56am
 
Panther wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 10:55am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 10:22am:
Panther wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 9:43am:
In America Gun ownership is an individual Right, where as here in Australia it is a granted Privilege administered & controlled completely by the government.



I fail to see how this state of affairs is a problem. Car ownership is a privilege that is administered and controlled completely by the government. Home ownership is a privilege that is administered and controlled completely by the government, why should Gun ownership be any different?


The Right of Free Men to Protect themselves, protect their lives, is not conditional.

This was understood by America's Founding Fathers, who were founding a new country, founded on the principals of Freedom & Liberty, after shedding off the rule of the tyrannical English Monarchy.

Their beliefs on the subject are firmly entrenched in their writings on the subject, & if you need further proof of their motivations I suggest you look up the Federalist Papers for starters, then traverse the numerous statements made by the Founding Fathers themselves related to the subject.

This is the statement that acknowledged the Right of Free Men to self-defense, a Right that predates the Constitution itself.

Firearms were conceived primarily for self-defense.  Any other use is secondary.

You may not agree with the Right to self-defense, but then again you don't have to for the Right to exist.




http://imgur.com/LSTvoRr.png



Good let the Yanks do that, we live in this other country called Australia.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Panther
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #707 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 11:02am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 10:56am:
Good let the Yanks do that, we live in this other country called Australia.


I'm sure Americans surely will, & gladly. Wink

The second part of your statement isn't relevant in this thread, other than your desire to make it, for in America the Laws & Customs of Australia mean absolutely nothing except to those that wish to travel here. Wink


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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #708 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 11:04am
 
Panther wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 11:02am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 10:56am:
Good let the Yanks do that, we live in this other country called Australia.


I'm sure Americans surely will, & gladly. Wink

The second part of your statement isn't relevant in this thread, other than your desire to make it, for in America the Laws & Customs of Australia mean nothing except to those that wish to travel here. Wink





My point is that somehow suggesting that because it works for Yanks, it must be put into practice here is false.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Panther
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #709 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 11:22am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 11:04am:
Panther wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 11:02am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 10:56am:
Good let the Yanks do that, we live in this other country called Australia.


I'm sure Americans surely will, & gladly. Wink

The second part of your statement isn't relevant in this thread, other than your desire to make it, for in America the Laws & Customs of Australia mean nothing except to those that wish to travel here. Wink





My point is that somehow suggesting that because it works for Yanks, it must be put into practice here is false.


The Topic of this Thread is " Disarming <the> USA ".

That's what we are discussing, not USA vs Australia except when comparison aids in a more in depth cultural understanding.

Where I do firmly believe in America's Right to Keep & Bear Arms, as acknowledged in the US Constitution, & many of the precepts of the US Constitution itself, whether "...it must be put into practice here..." as you put it, is up to the Australian People, & at the most, is something I sincerely hope is thoroughly considered & eventually enacted.

That's my personal feelings on the subject, which you are free to disagree with.  Wink
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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2015 at 11:43am by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Mortdooley
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #710 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 12:00pm
 
If you were a legal  resident alien living  in  the  United  States  you could  own  any firearm  a Citizen  can. If you  were to  immigrate there is a process  to  legally  send your  firearms here.
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #711 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 12:17pm
 
Panther wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 11:22am:
as you put it, is up to the Australian People, & at the most, is something I sincerely hope is thoroughly considered & eventually enacted.

That's my personal feelings on the subject, which you are free to disagree with.  Wink



I think most people here do.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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|dev|null
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #712 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 12:59pm
 
Mortdooley wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 10:37pm:
Quote:
CC?  Concealed Carry?  Why would I want to do a course in that Baron?  I don't conceal what I carry!


Are you familiar with the term to walk a mile in another mans shoes? You don't have to change your opinion but a little courtesy would be appreciated. 


When the Baron stops automatically calling anybody who opposes his free use of a firearm a "hoplophobe" or a "gun grabber" and you give me some courtesty, I'll return it.  When the Baron apologises for his use of intemperate language I might do the same.  As I suspect neither of you or Panther are actually interested in discussion, much preferring to shout and holler at your opponents, I'll give you back what you give me.   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin

As far as I am concerned, you want to play with a gun, get a license and join your Militia - the US National Guard!  Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #713 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 1:01pm
 
Mortdooley wrote on Aug 2nd, 2015 at 11:46pm:
Nope, I care for other humans Mort.  I also don't want to dictate to them when they act responsibly.  Problem is, too many won't where guns are concerned.  Too many crimes committed by people with the best available means to facilitate them:  Guns!

We don't let people drive cars without a minimum of training and a license.  We don't allow people to fly planes without a minimum of training and a license.  Why should we allow people to own and use guns without a minimum of training and a license?


You only need a drivers license to drive on public roads, you can drive anything you want on private property as soon as your feet can reach the pedals!

No pilot license required to fly an ultralight in the US.

Citizens do not ask permission from their servants in government if they can protect themselves. No license required or needed for the honest adult to buy a firearm.


Tough luck, Mort.  As far as I am concerned, you want to play with a gun, get a license and join the National Guard.   Then I'd limit you to single shot .22 weapons!  Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #714 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 1:04pm
 
Panther wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 9:43am:
In America Gun ownership is an individual Right, where as here in Australia it is a granted Privilege administered & controlled completely by the government.


Yep, sure is Panther.  So, we are different to the United States.  What of it?  Do you think all countries should be as badly run as the USA is?  Do you think all citizens should be shooting each other up all the time?  Whats wrong, can't see a movie without a massacre in front of you or something?  Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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Panther
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #715 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 2:16pm
 
|dev|null wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 12:59pm:
Mortdooley wrote on Jul 31st, 2015 at 10:37pm:
Quote:
CC?  Concealed Carry?  Why would I want to do a course in that Baron?  I don't conceal what I carry!


Are you familiar with the term to walk a mile in another mans shoes? You don't have to change your opinion but a little courtesy would be appreciated. 


When the Baron stops automatically calling anybody who opposes his free use of a firearm a "hoplophobe" or a "gun grabber" and you give me some courtesty, I'll return it.  When the Baron apologises for his use of intemperate language I might do the same.  As I suspect neither of you or Panther are actually interested in discussion, much preferring to shout and holler at your opponents, I'll give you back what you give me.   


Go away TROLL ....... your words are not meant to discuss, or even meant to express a heart felt opinion coupled with reasonable corroboration.

Your words are for one purpose only, to call out & inflame anyone with an opinion you don't approve of with typically irrational statements, that again are only placed to inflame, & never aimed at constructive argument or debate.

That makes you a
SERIAL TROLL!


Begone TROLL!
 
  
...


...




I've put you on Permanent Ignore, so type yer heart out, I won't see you anymore, unless I press an override just to peek.
    ...




...

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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2015 at 3:27pm by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Live FREE or DIE!
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #716 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 4:20pm
 
|dev|null wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 1:04pm:
Panther wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 9:43am:
In America Gun ownership is an individual Right, where as here in Australia it is a granted Privilege administered & controlled completely by the government.


Yep, sure is Panther.  So, we are different to the United States.  What of it?  Do you think all countries should be as badly run as the USA is?  Do you think all citizens should be shooting each other up all the time?  Whats wrong, can't see a movie without a massacre in front of you or something?  Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #717 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 5:04pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 4:20pm:
|dev|null wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 1:04pm:
Panther wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 9:43am:
In America Gun ownership is an individual Right, where as here in Australia it is a granted Privilege administered & controlled completely by the government.


Yep, sure is Panther.  So, we are different to the United States.  What of it?  Do you think all countries should be as badly run as the USA is?  Do you think all citizens should be shooting each other up all the time?  Whats wrong, can't see a movie without a massacre in front of you or something?  Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin





I suppose that would mean that crime rates are soaring out of control in Australia because we have gun control. Oh wait, they aren't
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Panther
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #718 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 6:59pm
 
Sheriffs across US refuse to enforce tougher gun laws


Quote:
Sheriffs across the United States are refusing to implement new gun control laws passed by state legislatures, according to a report by the New York Times.

The numbers are particularly high in Colorado, where the majority of sheriffs have come out against the state’s new gun laws, including provisions requiring background checks for private gun sales and the banning of magazines over 15 rounds. Fifty-five of the state’s 62 elected sheriffs joined a federal lawsuit filed in May arguing the new laws are unconstitutional.

Even for some of those that didn’t sign onto the lawsuit, enforcement of Colorado’s new gun restrictions isn’t high on their list of priorities.

“All law enforcement agencies consider the community standards — what is it that our community wishes us to focus on — and I can tell you our community is not worried one whit about background checks or high-capacity magazines,” said Sheriff W. Pete Palmer of Chaffee County, Colorado, to the Times.

Last month, a federal judge ruled the sheriffs did not have standing to sue as a group, but that the court would still rule on the Constitutionality of the laws in question.

Regardless of the outcome, Colorado Department of public Safety Spokesman Lance Clem told the Times that when it comes to enforcing the law, sheriffs have significant latitude to make their own decisions.

“We’re not in the position of telling sheriffs and chiefs what to do or not to do,” he said. “We have people calling us all the time, thinking they’ve got an issue with their sheriff, and we tell them we don’t have the authority to intervene.”

While Colorado seems to be at the center of this gun control struggle, sheriffs in other states are also resisting attempts to curb the effects of new legislation. In New York, two sheriffs have already declared they will not enforce new laws passed by Governor Andrew Cuomo. State and local police file most felony gun charges in New York, but nonetheless Cuomo called the sheriffs’ decisions “a dangerous and frightening precedent.”.....





...

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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2015 at 7:58pm by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #719 - Aug 3rd, 2015 at 9:53pm
 
Panther wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 6:59pm:
Sheriffs across US refuse to enforce tougher gun laws


Quote:
Sheriffs across the United States are refusing to implement new gun control laws passed by state legislatures, according to a report by the New York Times.

The numbers are particularly high in Colorado, where the majority of sheriffs have come out against the state’s new gun laws, including provisions requiring background checks for private gun sales and the banning of magazines over 15 rounds. Fifty-five of the state’s 62 elected sheriffs joined a federal lawsuit filed in May arguing the new laws are unconstitutional.

Even for some of those that didn’t sign onto the lawsuit, enforcement of Colorado’s new gun restrictions isn’t high on their list of priorities.

“All law enforcement agencies consider the community standards — what is it that our community wishes us to focus on — and I can tell you our community is not worried one whit about background checks or high-capacity magazines,” said Sheriff W. Pete Palmer of Chaffee County, Colorado, to the Times.

Last month, a federal judge ruled the sheriffs did not have standing to sue as a group, but that the court would still rule on the Constitutionality of the laws in question.

Regardless of the outcome, Colorado Department of public Safety Spokesman Lance Clem told the Times that when it comes to enforcing the law, sheriffs have significant latitude to make their own decisions.

“We’re not in the position of telling sheriffs and chiefs what to do or not to do,” he said. “We have people calling us all the time, thinking they’ve got an issue with their sheriff, and we tell them we don’t have the authority to intervene.”

While Colorado seems to be at the center of this gun control struggle, sheriffs in other states are also resisting attempts to curb the effects of new legislation. In New York, two sheriffs have already declared they will not enforce new laws passed by Governor Andrew Cuomo. State and local police file most felony gun charges in New York, but nonetheless Cuomo called the sheriffs’ decisions “a dangerous and frightening precedent.”.....





http://i.imgur.com/u8VX9OX.jpg




I think that just means voting with your head. Something which generally doesnt occur much.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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