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Marla

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #570 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:35pm

Panther wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Here are those oaths:

Source: Military.com [quote]

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlisted):

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I remember signing one of those.

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Panther

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #571 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:52pm

Marla wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:35pm:

Panther wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Here are those oaths:

Source: Military.com [quote]

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlisted):

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I remember signing one of those.

Ah, a Vet! Thank you for your service.

Please don't misunderstand this, I mean no disrespect whatsoever.

When you swore that oath of enlistment, did you understand what it meant & take it seriously, or did you take it as just a formality, & merely mouthed the words?

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« Last Edit: Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:58pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Lionel Edriess

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #572 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 3:56pm

Marla wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:35pm:

Panther wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Here are those oaths:

Source: Military.com [quote]

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlisted):

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I remember signing one of those.

With the greatest respect, if you have been/are in the services, I have a question.

So, with regard to the oath, does that mean you would, or could, participate in another Waco incident?

Or are you so naive as to believe that it may never happen again? Given the current mood in your country, such a scenario is not as remote as it seems.

Again, no disrespect intended. I'm merely attempting to gauge the impact that maybe being directed to fire on fellow citizens might have on your oath - and your feelings with respect to that oath and those under fire from fellow countrymen.

Would you, could you, disobey a direct order while mindful of the consequences?

The reason I am asking is because of scenes already posted where militarised police have reacted to civilian 'riots' and demonstrations, whose participants could have been deemed 'civilian terrorists'.

Once classified 'terrorists', what is the response to these people of yours?

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Toughen up, Australia!

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Marla Gold Member Offline A joint a day keeps the MAGA away Posts: 14657 Colorado Gender:	Re: Disarming USA Reply #573 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 3:56pm I'm not a true vet. I was medically discharged 2 1/2 years into a 8 year enlistment in the US Marines due to a sustained ankle injury that would not heal after two surgeries. The military tends to frown on that. I believed in the Oath at the time - and still do. Otherwise, I would never have signed up.
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Brian Ross

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #574 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 6:36pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 3:56pm:

Marla wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:35pm:

Panther wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Here are those oaths:

Source: Military.com [quote]

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlisted):

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I remember signing one of those.

With the greatest respect, if you have been/are in the services, I have a question.

So, with regard to the oath, does that mean you would, or could, participate in another Waco incident?

Or are you so naive as to believe that it may never happen again? Given the current mood in your country, such a scenario is not as remote as it seems.

Again, no disrespect intended. I'm merely attempting to gauge the impact that maybe being directed to fire on fellow citizens might have on your oath - and your feelings with respect to that oath and those under fire from fellow countrymen.

Would you, could you, disobey a direct order while mindful of the consequences?

The reason I am asking is because of scenes already posted where militarised police have reacted to civilian 'riots' and demonstrations, whose participants could have been deemed 'civilian terrorists'.

Once classified 'terrorists', what is the response to these people of yours?

Don't mistake US National Guard units and members as the same as US Army/Marines/Air Force/Navy members, Lionel. The two are very different groups and operate under slightly different sets of rules and loyalties. They may wear the same uniforms but the allegiances are different. Roll Eyes

Waco was a minor blot on the landscape and one not worth remembering. Koresian was a fool and a egotist and a suspect paedophile. While his followers didn't deserve what happened to them, they did choose to follow him to their deaths.

As Marla would suggest, just another example of the Texas education department's efforts. Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Panther

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #575 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 7:02pm

Marla wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 3:56pm:

I'm not a true vet. I was medically discharged 2 1/2 years into a 8 year enlistment in the US Marines due to a sustained ankle injury that would not heal after two surgeries. The military tends to frown on that.

I believed in the Oath at the time - and still do. Otherwise, I would never have signed up.

Sorry to hear about the discharge, but without knowing about your enlistment contract (DEP) or final MEPS I'm only to guess that what you were scheduled to perform was somehow negated by your physical abilities/condition.

Nevertheless, the oath is foremost on the minds of all service personnel, & if push come to shove & one is ordered to do something in obvious contradiction to that oath, most service personnel would honor their oath even though it might bring them up on charges.

I sincerely hope your injuries eventually heal.

Again, I repeat, I appreciate your service, & never doubted you would answer my question with complete honesty.

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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
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Panther Gold Member Offline My Heart beats True for the Red White & Blue... Posts: 11848 Gender:	Re: Disarming USA Reply #576 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 7:04pm
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Marla

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #577 - Jul 7^th, 2015 at 1:15am

Panther wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

Sorry to hear about the discharge, but without knowing about your enlistment contract (DEP) or final MEPS I'm only to guess that what you were scheduled to perform was somehow negated by your physical abilities/condition.

Yeah, those "physical drills" the Marine Corp never seems to run out of.

Also lost all possible VA benefits.

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Panther

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #578 - Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:11am

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 6:36pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 3:56pm:

Marla wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:35pm:

Panther wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Here are those oaths:

Source: Military.com [quote]

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlisted):

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I remember signing one of those.

With the greatest respect, if you have been/are in the services, I have a question.

So, with regard to the oath, does that mean you would, or could, participate in another Waco incident?

Or are you so naive as to believe that it may never happen again? Given the current mood in your country, such a scenario is not as remote as it seems.

Again, no disrespect intended. I'm merely attempting to gauge the impact that maybe being directed to fire on fellow citizens might have on your oath - and your feelings with respect to that oath and those under fire from fellow countrymen.

Would you, could you, disobey a direct order while mindful of the consequences?

The reason I am asking is because of scenes already posted where militarised police have reacted to civilian 'riots' and demonstrations, whose participants could have been deemed 'civilian terrorists'.

Once classified 'terrorists', what is the response to these people of yours?

Don't mistake US National Guard units and members as the same as US Army/Marines/Air Force/Navy members, Lionel. The two are very different groups and operate under slightly different sets of rules and loyalties. They may wear the same uniforms but the allegiances are different. Roll Eyes

JFYI........

32 U.S. Code § 304 - Enlistment oath

Source: Cornell University Law School https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/32/304 Quote:

Each person enlisting in the National Guard shall sign an enlistment contract and subscribe to the following oath:

“I do hereby acknowledge to have voluntarily enlisted this XX day of XXXX, XXXX, in the XXXXXX National Guard of the State of XXXXXX for a period of XX year(s) under the conditions prescribed by law, unless sooner discharged by proper authority.
“I, XXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and of the State of XXXXXX against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to them; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of XXXXXX and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.”

The oath may be taken before any officer of the National Guard of the State or Territory, or of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia, as the case may be, or before any other person authorized by the law of the jurisdiction concerned to administer oaths of enlistment in the National Guard.

I hope that resolves the differences, & possible misunderstandings, between the 'Oaths of Enlistment'

Again, they ALL take a solemn oath to defend the
United States Constitution
, first & foremost.....
Not a Country, not a Flag, not any Person, & definitely not any Government.
Wink

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« Last Edit: Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:32am by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Disarming USA Reply #579 - Jul 7^th, 2015 at 12:19pm Panther wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 7:02pm: I'm only to guess that what you were scheduled to perform was somehow negated by your physical abilities/condition. No kidding, an ankle injury which wouldnt heal. Who would have guess that would negate doing extreme physical activity.
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Marla

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #580 - Jul 7^th, 2015 at 12:26pm

rhino wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 12:19pm:

Panther wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

I'm only to guess that what you were scheduled to perform was somehow negated by your physical abilities/condition.

No kidding, an ankle injury which wouldnt heal. Who would have guess that would negate doing extreme physical activity. Roll Eyes

Let me know when you ever served, Rhino.

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Panther

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #581 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 7:18am

Guns & the Gun Culture become deeper entrenched into American Culture.

The Second Reigns Supreme In Missouri

Source: America's 1^st Freedom http://tinyurl.com/q7t4z67 Quote:

Last August, Missouri voters went to the polls and made a stand for their Second Amendment freedoms. They overwhelmingly passed Constitutional Amendment 5, which enables Missourians to own, carry and use a firearm for self-defense or sporting purposes without fear of political overreach. The voters made their voice heard.

But Michael Bloomberg went tone-deaf and tuned out the defeat. He then responded in the only way he knows how—with cold cash. He funded a lawsuit that challenged the ballot as “insufficient.” St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson and Moms Demand Action organizer Rebecca Morgan tried to convince the court that the voters who supported the amendment last August were misled by a ballot summary that failed to properly explain the amendment.

But this week the Missouri Supreme Court disagreed, upholding the election results as valid. We can only presume that Bloomberg had his hands over his ears for the verdict.

+1

In the USA the States basically have veto power over Federal Law.
Why?
Because it says so in the US Constitution, that's why. Wink

The Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution says it very clearly & forcefully:

Quote:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution Quote:

The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791.[1] It expresses the principle of federalism, which undergirds the entire plan of the original Constitution, by stating that the federal government possesses only those powers delegated to it by the Constitution. All remaining powers are reserved for the states or the people. In drafting this amendment, its framers had two purposes in mind: first, as a necessary rule of construction; and second, as a reaffirmation of the nature of the federal system.[2]

+1

Could this be a possible reason why the Australian Government is so afraid about even considering a plain & simple, easy to read & understand Bill of Rights for the Australian People?

God forbid if the Australian People & their Government had a list of Inalienable Rights to live by. Shocked

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« Last Edit: Jul 9^th, 2015 at 7:26am by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Disarming USA Reply #582 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 12:48pm 1. Would you be worried if the amendment hadn't been properly explained? 2. Australia doesnt need a list of rights.
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Panther

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #583 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 7:00pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 12:48pm:

1. Would you be worried if the amendment hadn't been properly explained?

2. Australia doesnt need a list of rights.

2. that's right, the Government doesn't need a list of rights, but what's wrong with the People having a list. This way the Government is less apt to cut corners, & fudge with your rights, as you know they will given half a chance.

1. I'd rather see it in black & white, short & sweet, plain & simple, rather than references running a legalese laden maze with references to every clause, section, & subsection known to man, so that even a well versed lawyer scratches his head trying to figure it out, & one where 6 judges have 10 different opinions on it's interpretation. What a jungle of hogwash it is.

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« Last Edit: Jul 9^th, 2015 at 7:50pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Disarming USA Reply #584 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 9:27pm Oh its the USA they vcan shoot each other if they want.
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