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Disarming USA (Read 95888 times)
Prime Minister for Canyons
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #540 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:05pm
 
So thus we have two possible outcomes then Panther.


1. Tyrannical government, army supports government, uses military force on people. US military so powerful even 200 million armed citizens won't be enough.

2. Tyrannical government, army goes against government, army so powerful it doesn't need armed citizens.


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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #541 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:06pm
 
My point is , I suspect the whole tyrannical government thing was written from a time, when armed citizens could legitimately take the fight to invading governments/armies (which makes sense since virtually all the authors were vets from Independance)
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #542 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:32pm
 
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 9:38am:
you fall prey to the age old fault of using today's terminology & definitions when attempting to define the Original  Framer's Intent.


Ah, that old chestnut. That's the big point of division in interpreting constitutions. In Australia, they call it the Originalist vs Progressivist methods of interpretation. Seems the yanks have stuck with the originalist one. Pity for them. Thankfully, our High Court hasn't.

While I understand why you cite the Supreme Court cases, the fact is that the judges are all political appointees anyway (IIRC, the yanks vote for their judges!).

At any rate, the point I was making is that there is an alternative, more sensible way of interpreting that section; whether the yanks take it up is frankly their problem.

Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:03pm:
are obligated by that same oath not to obey illegal orders.


Ah, illegal orders. That's one of these ideas that sounds terrific in a classroom, but is frankly nothing more than a loophole for the military to disown an individual caught out. Think about it: the lawfulness of orders is only determined after the fact. Classic case -- the Nuremburg trials. All the orders were "lawful" as per Germany's national law of the time. If they'd been refused, the soldiers would have been shot. But, since they were carried out -- and post facto declared unlawful -- the soldiers were hanged instead.
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See Profile For Update wrote on Jan 3rd, 2015 at 2:58pm:
Why the bugger did I get stuck on a planet chalked full of imbeciles?
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #543 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:47pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:05pm:
So thus we have two possible outcomes then Panther.


1. Tyrannical government, army supports government, uses military force on people. US military so powerful even 200 million armed citizens won't be enough.

2. Tyrannical government, army goes against government, army so powerful it doesn't need armed citizens.




Try:

3. Tyrannical government, army told to shoot the people who refuse to disarm or obey, 50% refuse the illegal command & disband/desert/return home with their military arms to join up with their fellow citizens to fight the tyrannical government.

In a protracted conflict (over 2 years) of citizens + ex-military (who probably commandeered their arms) + a very large contingent of Law Enforcement Personnel across America vs. the government, in the USA the government wouldn't have a chance in a protracted gorilla-warfare scenario.

In the shorter term though 5 commandeered armed F111s & one commandeered armed B1 Bomber could lay waste to Washington DCs war machine & the Pentagon in less than 15 minutes. With a part of their command & control destroyed, while they are attempting to gain back control, American Militias....hell just plain ole bubbas with guns....will be recruiting formerly unarmed Americans into the fight, providing them with training & firepower.
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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #544 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:51pm
 
F-111s commandeered from where? They've been retired since 1998 and presumably put to waste in that desert airfield,


And the whole 15 minutes thing presumes that a tyrannical government doesn't even suspect their populace of doing such a thing.


BTW, not sure I can take military campaign advice from someone who talks about gorilla warfare. WTF is that? Suicide bombers in gorilla costumes?
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #545 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:57pm
 
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:47pm:
commandeered


Funny, that's what other people would call "hijacked" or "stolen", depending.
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See Profile For Update wrote on Jan 3rd, 2015 at 2:58pm:
Why the bugger did I get stuck on a planet chalked full of imbeciles?
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #546 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:58pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:51pm:
And the whole 15 minutes thing presumes that a tyrannical government doesn't even suspect their populace of doing such a thing.


Shh, outrage bus. It's his fantasy.
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See Profile For Update wrote on Jan 3rd, 2015 at 2:58pm:
Why the bugger did I get stuck on a planet chalked full of imbeciles?
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #547 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:01pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 12:51pm:
BTW, not sure I can take military campaign advice from someone who talks about gorilla warfare. WTF is that? Suicide bombers in gorilla costumes?


Play as dumb you look, but you know exactly what I mean.  Wink

Remember this:

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


Most Americans over 30 know that passage by heart.  Americans were taught to memorize it in grammar school before 1990. Wink

P.S. ...... Not just to memorize it, but know exactly what it means.
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« Last Edit: Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:06pm by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #548 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:06pm
 
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:01pm:
Play as dumb you look, but you know exactly what I mean.  Wink


Most Americans over 30 know that passage by heart.  Americans were taught to memorize it in grammar school before 1990. Wink



Oh you mean guerilla warfare.


Memorising that stuff probably explains why you said it was gorilla warfare, and why US kids have fantastic education levels, oh wait they don't.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #549 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:17pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:06pm:
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:01pm:
Play as dumb you look, but you know exactly what I mean.  Wink


Most Americans over 30 know that passage by heart.  Americans were taught to memorize it in grammar school before 1990. Wink



Oh you mean guerilla warfare.


Memorising that stuff probably explains why you said it was gorilla warfare, and why US kids have fantastic education levels, oh wait they don't.


Don't change the subject, were talking about Guerrilla Warfare brainiac. Where did you learn to spell, in TAFE?  Grin


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« Last Edit: Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:22pm by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #550 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:20pm
 
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:17pm:
BTW.....don't read  this.


And yet somehow, the actual ranking of students is always higher in Australia in terms of reading, science and maths?

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #551 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:24pm
 
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:17pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:06pm:
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:01pm:
Play as dumb you look, but you know exactly what I mean.  Wink


Most Americans over 30 know that passage by heart.  Americans were taught to memorize it in grammar school before 1990. Wink



Oh you mean guerilla warfare.


Memorising that stuff probably explains why you said it was gorilla warfare, and why US kids have fantastic education levels, oh wait they don't.


Don't change the subject, were talking about Guerrilla Warfare brainiac. Where did you learn to spell, in TAFE?  Grin





BTW according to the dictionaries, guerrilla or guerilla are both accepted spellings of the word.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Panther
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #552 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:24pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:20pm:
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:17pm:
BTW.....don't read  this.


And yet somehow, the actual ranking of students is always higher in Australia in terms of reading, science and maths?

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading



5 years ago ......  ...

STOP!!!   Let's get back on track, next you'll want to compare.....

You are obviously not impressed with anything I present, so I'll stop, if you do....unless its about Disarming the USA.

Agree....?


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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
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'
 
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #553 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:26pm
 
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:24pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:20pm:
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:17pm:
BTW.....don't read  this.


And yet somehow, the actual ranking of students is always higher in Australia in terms of reading, science and maths?

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading



5 years ago ......  http://imgur.com/r7JSQlq.gif



And last year


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/global-school-rankings-interactive-map-shows-standards-of-education-across-the-world-10247405.html

Australia 14th, US 29th


CHeers
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Panther
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My Heart beats True for
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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #554 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:29pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:26pm:
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:24pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:20pm:
Panther wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 1:17pm:
BTW.....don't read  this.


And yet somehow, the actual ranking of students is always higher in Australia in terms of reading, science and maths?

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading



5 years ago ......  http://imgur.com/r7JSQlq.gif



And last year


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/global-school-rankings-interactive-map-shows-standards-of-education-across-the-world-10247405.html

Australia 14th, US 29th


CHeers



Ya got me.....Cheers ...

Now, all we gotta do is teach them cherubs how ta shoot! Wink
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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'
 
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