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Brian Ross

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #435 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 1:56pm

Marla wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 2:28am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 10:30pm:

How would I instil discipline? I'd start with the children. "Give me a child until the age of seven and I will give you the man," St. Francis Xavier is reputed to have said. Write off the older generation. They've had their chance. Create a new society where people understand what self-discipline actually means.

By "discipline" I mean respect for each other and respect for society and the laws of society. No bullying, no hatred based on race/gender/sexuality/etc. Children would be taught how to read, write and above all else, think critically about the messages that their parents try and impart onto them. Roll Eyes

I'm disappointed in you. Give me a child at 7 who appears to be at risk and I'll show you another liberal social program that has failed him. You're not talking anything about discipline, you're talking 'Brave New World.' Lame-O.

Pipe dreaming and wishful thinking does not change human behavior in a culture of violence. For someone who claims to have a Master's you really lack might insight into the human condition.

You appear to misunderstand me. I meant, literally, give me the child. Take them away from their parents and educate them correctly, Marla.

Also, you're assuming the apparent American inability to do anything useful with their society would continue in my new one. Why?

I am constantly amazed at how much money America seemingly throws away on social programs that fail. While Australia does it considerably better. Perhaps the point is, poverty isn't quite as easily divided on the basis of "race" downunder, compares to the US? Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #436 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 2:17pm

cods wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 9:19am:

rhino wrote on Jun 6^th, 2015 at 10:20pm:

we have the same deal with Aboriginal people in this country Mort, only worse. despite being given advantages in education, social welfare and job opportunities that other racial groups here could only dream about they refuse to take them. Instead despite comprising less than 3 percent of the population they comprise a staggering 50 percent of the prison population. This is despite leniency given in sentencing simply because they are black.

it is an almost insurmountable world wide problem..

them and us....

as the pendulum swings....it always seems to go overboard....never steady in the middle..

the black people want equality...they want to be treated as if they are white....fair enough...

but on the other hand.. they also want preferential treatment..

maybe when they realise they have to earn special treatment....like earn entry to University.. get the job because they are better than the rest.,.. not because of the skin colour...

then yes they might be seen as equal by the majority...and its the majority that matters not the oafs who seem to hog the headlines....the blacks have come a long way... but there is heaps to do on both sides....at this very moment I think its the blacks turn to show us what they will do to win respect.....

and for me it isnt complaining and stealing and burning.... they will need to do better than that..

the lady that refused to sit in the back of the bus.. because she thought she was equal .. has my respect...she didnt demand or scream she just did it.....

she showed people how ugly they were without sayinga word..

So, lead by example, Cods. Paint your skin black and walk a mile or two in their shoes and tell us again they have it too easy. The problem most white people have with understanding what they and their compatriots do to black people here or in the US is that they are white, they've never experienced what it is to be black. My sister-in-law is Indigenous. I've sat on a bus next to her and heard the comments, seen the looks that she gets for sitting next to some who isn't indigenous. I've read the rejection letters she's gotten from potential employers (if she's lucky) which skirt the line of racial discrimination on the basis of her skin colour. I've seen the scars she's received from being beaten up by white kids when at school. All this adds up and you're surprised they get angry and demand that they get treated equally? Roll Eyes

Some black people do cause trouble, most don't. Just like Muslims in that regard. Personally, I'm fed up with all the anti-Indigenous or Islamphobic bullshit that I read on the web all the time.

So, how about you become black for a year and we'll see what you have to say at the end of it, shall we? Roll Eyes

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Lionel Edriess

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #437 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 2:34pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 6^th, 2015 at 6:01pm:

MumboJumbo wrote on Jun 6^th, 2015 at 3:32pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 11:43pm:

arming of local police forces with military-grade hardware -

Well, poo. I'm glad I live in Aus, not that asylum.

You obviously missed the Lindt Cafe siege on national TV. Coppers armed to the teeth with military-style firearms... Roll Eyes

How, in all honesty, can you compare what happened at the Lindt Cafe and what is happening right now in the USA?

One one hand, we have, in all probability a police SWAT team, responding to situation where a known Muslim radical (already on bail for murder) has taken 18 hostages in Sydney city centre - with the real possibility of a bomb involved.

On the other, we have local police enforcement with real military-grade hardware at both Ferguson and the latest Waco incident. That's just to name a couple.

Google the images for the differences between the situations, Brian.

Apples and oranges, mate - no comparison. We in Australia are being disarmed - Americans on both sides are arming up.

The Second American Revolution will be a global game-changer.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #438 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 2:50pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 2:34pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 6^th, 2015 at 6:01pm:

MumboJumbo wrote on Jun 6^th, 2015 at 3:32pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 11:43pm:

arming of local police forces with military-grade hardware -

Well, poo. I'm glad I live in Aus, not that asylum.

You obviously missed the Lindt Cafe siege on national TV. Coppers armed to the teeth with military-style firearms... Roll Eyes

How, in all honesty, can you compare what happened at the Lindt Cafe and what is happening right now in the USA?

The only difference is scale. Roll Eyes

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Lionel Edriess

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #439 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 6:22pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 2:50pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 2:34pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 6^th, 2015 at 6:01pm:

MumboJumbo wrote on Jun 6^th, 2015 at 3:32pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 4^th, 2015 at 11:43pm:

arming of local police forces with military-grade hardware -

Well, poo. I'm glad I live in Aus, not that asylum.

You obviously missed the Lindt Cafe siege on national TV. Coppers armed to the teeth with military-style firearms... Roll Eyes

How, in all honesty, can you compare what happened at the Lindt Cafe and what is happening right now in the USA?

The only difference is scale. Roll Eyes

Scale? What does that mean?

The difference between police actions to perceived nuisances? The actual scale of the weaponry involved? The degree of public dissension and disobedience?

Scale?

In the words of a popular but politically assassinated political figure, "Please explain."

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 46203	Re: Disarming USA Reply #440 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 6:43pm You keep being deliberately obtuse, Lionel, why? "Scale" refers to the number of weapons, nothing more, Lionel...
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Lionel Edriess

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #441 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 8:06pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 6:43pm:

You keep being deliberately obtuse, Lionel, why?

"Scale" refers to the number of weapons, nothing more, Lionel... Roll Eyes

Obtuse? Me?

You just don't want to play the game, Brian. "The numbers of weapons" has little to do with the topic at hand, or even the OP.

I made comment about arming local police forces with military-style weapons and you brushed me off with a reference to what happened in Sydney at the Lindt Cafe seige: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1371358984/405

I then made comment about the differences about NSW SWAT teams and the local police in the USA.

You dodged that comment and the comparisons I drew.

You don't see the differences in response to a radical Muslim hijacking 18 people in a city centre with the possibility of a bomb threat and the response to a civilian demonstration?

What was that point again, about arming local police forces with military gear?

When all you have is a hammer, Brian, everything you see is a nail.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #442 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 8:32pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 8:06pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 6:43pm:

You keep being deliberately obtuse, Lionel, why?

"Scale" refers to the number of weapons, nothing more, Lionel... Roll Eyes

Obtuse? Me?

Yes, you, Lionel. You're smarter than this normally...

Quote:

You just don't want to play the game, Brian. "The numbers of weapons" has little to do with the topic at hand, or even the OP.

Funny, yet that is the excuse used by Panther, Mort, Marla as to why the US can never be 'disarmed", Lionel.

You've decided to include the police and its' weaponry. I just pointed out the same problem exists here. You seem to have taken exception my pointing that out for some reason... Roll Eyes

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Lionel Edriess

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #443 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 10:33pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 8:32pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 8:06pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 6:43pm:

You keep being deliberately obtuse, Lionel, why?

"Scale" refers to the number of weapons, nothing more, Lionel... Roll Eyes

Obtuse? Me?

Yes, you, Lionel. You're smarter than this normally...

Quote:

You just don't want to play the game, Brian. "The numbers of weapons" has little to do with the topic at hand, or even the OP.

Funny, yet that is the excuse used by Panther, Mort, Marla as to why the US can never be 'disarmed", Lionel.

You've decided to include the police and its' weaponry. I just pointed out the same problem exists here. You seem to have taken exception my pointing that out for some reason... Roll Eyes

Ok, then let's extend an unlikely scenario, shall we?

An Executive Order is issued that all firearms in the US are to be either surrendered or registered by such a date.

Unilateral compliance to this order is unlikely to happen, so then all those don't comply are in violation of the 'law', notwithstanding the Constitution.

Then the fit hits the shan.

Somewhere along the line, a situation is bound to develop, by whatever force is deployed to enforce that order, that will provoke a reaction which will be felt on a national level.

Then we'll have guerrilla warfare in the USA.

The Oath of Allegiance might be sworn to by every American soldier, Brian, but I really doubt that the majority would consider their own people as 'domestic terrorists' en masse.

Anarchy will bloom, and it won't be pretty.

And if it comes to that, and the rest of the world accepts it, then it's no longer a global society in which I wish to live.

The USA being disarmed - I can't see it in the foreseeable future.

American citizenry rearming I can understand. Their society is in meltdown, aided and abetted by a Muslim President.

Next!

Cool

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Panther

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #444 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:17pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 8:32pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 8:06pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 6:43pm:

You keep being deliberately obtuse, Lionel, why?

"Scale" refers to the number of weapons, nothing more, Lionel... Roll Eyes

Obtuse? Me?

Yes, you, Lionel. You're smarter than this normally...

Quote:

You just don't want to play the game, Brian. "The numbers of weapons" has little to do with the topic at hand, or even the OP.

Funny, yet that is the excuse used by Panther, Mort, Marla as to why the US can never be 'disarmed", Lionel.

You've decided to include the police and its' weaponry. I just pointed out the same problem exists here. You seem to have taken exception my pointing that out for some reason... Roll Eyes

The defense forces of the United States are reported to have 2,700,000 firearms.

The police in the United States are reported to have just about 1,150,000 firearms.

The number of American civilian firearms are estimated (because they are mostly unregistered) are estimated to be between 270,000,000 to 310,000,000.

American Gun totin' Civilians have close to 100x as many firearms as do the entire military & law enforcement contingents combined.

I think the balance in Australia is quite different, with the police having far, far, far more firearms than do the civilian population, & also more superior quality weapons as well.

BTW ....... In the USA civilian firearms rate much closer to Military grade standard overall. Wink

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« Last Edit: Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:43pm by Panther »

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When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Brian Ross

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #445 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:47pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 10:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 8:32pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 8:06pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 6:43pm:

You keep being deliberately obtuse, Lionel, why?

"Scale" refers to the number of weapons, nothing more, Lionel... Roll Eyes

Obtuse? Me?

Yes, you, Lionel. You're smarter than this normally...

Quote:

You just don't want to play the game, Brian. "The numbers of weapons" has little to do with the topic at hand, or even the OP.

Funny, yet that is the excuse used by Panther, Mort, Marla as to why the US can never be 'disarmed", Lionel.

You've decided to include the police and its' weaponry. I just pointed out the same problem exists here. You seem to have taken exception my pointing that out for some reason... Roll Eyes

Ok, then let's extend an unlikely scenario, shall we?

An Executive Order is issued that all firearms in the US are to be either surrendered or registered by such a date.

Except any el Presidente who orders such would be subject to impeachment for contravening the Constitution, Lionel.

As much as the US Gun Nuts may believe otherwise, even I understand that Nixon was a one in a century President and he's the only one who's attempted to undermine/overturn the entire US Constitution. And even he backed down in the end and resigned, rather than be impeached... Roll Eyes

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rhino

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #446 - Jun 7^th, 2015 at 11:58pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 10:33pm:

Somewhere along the line, a situation is bound to develop, by whatever force is deployed to enforce that order, that will provoke a reaction which will be felt on a national level.

Then we'll have guerrilla warfare in the USA.

The Oath of Allegiance might be sworn to by every American soldier, Brian, but I really doubt that the majority would consider their own people as 'domestic terrorists' en masse.

Anarchy will bloom, and it won't be pretty.

And if it comes to that, and the rest of the world accepts it, then it's no longer a global society in which I wish to live.

The USA being disarmed - I can't see it in the foreseeable future.

American citizenry rearming I can understand. Their society is in meltdown, aided and abetted by a Muslim President.

Next!

Cool

Yet history shows that Americans will willingly give up their firearms. Think you been watching too many john wayne movies there champ. Americans mostly do what they are told, much more subservient to their government than Australians. And Obama is not a Muslim. I thought this idiocy was buried 6 years ago.

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Marla

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Re: Disarming USA
Reply #447 - Jun 8^th, 2015 at 12:12am

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 1:56pm:

You appear to misunderstand me. I meant, literally, give me the child. Take them away from their parents and educate them correctly, Marla.

Give them to you? Um, okay.

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 1:56pm:

Also, you're assuming the apparent American inability to do anything useful with their society would continue in my new one. Why?

You know little of American society except what has been sold to you by mass media.

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7^th, 2015 at 1:56pm:

I am constantly amazed at how much money America seemingly throws away on social programs that fail. While Australia does it considerably better. Perhaps the point is, poverty isn't quite as easily divided on the basis of "race" downunder, compares to the US? Roll Eyes

Let me know when Australia has a civil war and instill segregation and laws like Jim Crow. Most American social programs are liberal programs that come from a mindset that you can solve any problem (including social ones) by simply throwing money at it. Australia is just as guilty. 5 second Google:

"Welfare-to-work programs promoted by successive governments have had no impact on unemployment as they fail to take into account the changing labour market, researchers have found.

The Australian National University (ANU) research, reported in the Australian on Friday, shows that the proportion of unemployed men aged between 25 and 54 has not changed in almost 15 years, staying at 9-10%.

Another

""There is no point [keeping on] funding systems or strategies that have currently failed us, or have only produced patchy results," he said.

"It's about looking at new ways of doing things.

"We need to look at innovative ways to try and achieve change and it's got to be done in partnership with the Aboriginal people and community."

Last week a report by the Productivity Commission found attendance rates for Indigenous students in WA were among the worst in Australia."

Two examples.

I'm sure you do things so much better. It obviously shows. So drop the nationalism horsehockey. That gets no one nowhere.

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Disarming USA Reply #448 - Jun 8^th, 2015 at 8:52am Disarm the USA? How about Mexico first, and then the Middle-East.
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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: Disarming USA Reply #449 - Jun 8^th, 2015 at 12:38pm issuevoter wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 8:52am: Disarm the USA? How about Mexico first, and then the Middle-East. While the United States may treat them as states of the USA, they aren't.
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