Australian Politics Forum - Muslims want to silence and intimidate you

Sprintcyclist

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #480 - May 2^nd, 2014 at 9:08pm

Melanias purse wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 8:43pm:

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 7:44pm:

Quote:

Here’s a question - if Islam is the biggest threat to Freeedom and wealth creation, how does this account for the biggest Muslim country in the world being one of the fastest growing economies on the planet?

Freedom, democracy, and prosperity. It is accounted for by the universal appeal of freedom and democracy. And a heavy western influence.

Quote:

Apologies if this is a pointless question.

Not at all. That one even made sense.

So how do you account for Suharto’s million-plus killing spree, his personal "war booty", and his state-sponsored corruption and nepotism on an unprecedented scale?

Western-influenced Freeedom/demokracy/prosperity - or Islam?

oh that was obviously islam.

don't know why you asked.

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Melanias purse

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #481 - May 2^nd, 2014 at 9:37pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 9:08pm:

Melanias purse wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 8:43pm:

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 7:44pm:

Quote:

Here’s a question - if Islam is the biggest threat to Freeedom and wealth creation, how does this account for the biggest Muslim country in the world being one of the fastest growing economies on the planet?

Freedom, democracy, and prosperity. It is accounted for by the universal appeal of freedom and democracy. And a heavy western influence.

Quote:

Apologies if this is a pointless question.

Not at all. That one even made sense.

So how do you account for Suharto’s million-plus killing spree, his personal "war booty", and his state-sponsored corruption and nepotism on an unprecedented scale?

Western-influenced Freeedom/demokracy/prosperity - or Islam?

oh that was obviously islam.

don't know why you asked.

I know. I thought I’d give FD one of Stryder’s Dorothy Dixers.

Cunning, no?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52819 At my desk.	Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you Reply #482 - May 9^th, 2014 at 12:35pm Gandalf you never did clarify your views on freedom of speech, other than to offer your limp wristed support for it on condition that it costs nothing, and to pull out the white flags if there will be a cost.
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Melanias purse Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101398	Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you Reply #483 - May 9^th, 2014 at 10:15pm Neither did you, FD. You merely said we shouldn’t criticize demokracy lest the enemy use our words against us. I think they said that in WWI too. You know, when we brought Johnny Turk demokracy so that he could keep quiet and not criticize demokracy. It is a jolly world, no?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #484 - May 9^th, 2014 at 11:22pm

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2014 at 12:35pm:

Gandalf you never did clarify your views on freedom of speech, other than to offer your limp wristed support for it on condition that it costs nothing, and to pull out the white flags if there will be a cost.

vulnerable minorities are not vilified and/or intimidated - which is perfectly in line with mainstream Australian views

Fixed.

Ooh look, here's some more limp wristed apologists - the majority of the Australian public to be precise:

Quote:

The latest Fairfax-Nielsen poll specifically asked voters if they believe it should it be lawful or unlawful to "offend, insult or humiliate" somebody based on their race.

The answer was a statistically conclusive 88 per cent - or nine out of 10 - in favour of the status quo - that is, that it should remain unlawful to discriminate.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/race-hate-voters-tell-brandis-to-back-off-20140413-zqubv.html#ixzz31Dxvzdq8

and in another survey...

Quote:

According to our survey, only 10% support making it lawful to offend without a legitimate defence (as provided for by Section 18D). Only 5% believe people should be totally free to intimidate up to the edge of criminality. This latter position is in line with the views espoused by influential free-market think-tank the Institute of Public Affairs (IPA) and News Corp columnist Andrew Bolt, who was found to be in breach of Section 18C in 2011.

Nearly 80% support laws against racial vilification. Close to 70% support laws against religious vilification.

These are not anti-free speech ideologues, as can be seen in the table below. Nearly half of those surveyed (47%) believe that freedom to speak your mind is more important than freedom from hate speech (neutral 32%; disagree 21%).

http://theconversation.com/what-do-australian-internet-users-think-about-racial-...

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Melanias purse Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101398	Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you Reply #485 - May 10^th, 2014 at 12:45am Yes, G, but that 80% are clearly Moslems. I think you’ll find decent Australian people love racial and religious vilification. You know what? I blame Islam. If it wasn’t for them, we’d be free to vilify whoever we want.
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freediver

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #486 - May 10^th, 2014 at 12:51am

Quote:

vulnerable minorities are not vilified and/or intimidated - which is perfectly in line with mainstream Australian views

How quickly you forget. Or would like to forget. It seems 90% of this debate is me trying to remind you of what you posted. You insisted that you only raised the white flag to Muslim extremists because I tricked you into thinking there was a guarantee people would get hurt if you did not surrender freedom of speech, and that I later "clarified" my question to one where there was a guarantee that no-one would get hurt. In both situations you were prepared to take a position, but not in any realistic situation. This had nothing to do with the racial vilification laws. In fact the context was hollywood movies. You then spent most of the discussion trying to change the topic and insisting you had already clarified your position and it was unfair for me to keep asking about it.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you Reply #487 - May 10^th, 2014 at 9:28am freediver wrote on May 10^th, 2014 at 12:51am: but not in any realistic situation. I spent much of the first 10 pages of this thread describing 3 or 4 specific realistic scenarios.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52819 At my desk.	Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you Reply #488 - May 10^th, 2014 at 9:47am Let me guess - every single one involved you supporting censorship, but in very carefully selected scenarios so as not to reveal the extent of your support for censorship?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you Reply #489 - May 10^th, 2014 at 9:53am freediver wrote on May 10^th, 2014 at 9:47am: Let me guess - every single one involved you supporting censorship, but in very carefully selected scenarios so as not to reveal the extent of your support for censorship? If you bothered to read it you'd know all about if
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freediver

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #490 - May 10^th, 2014 at 10:17am

That seems to be it. I'll elaborate for you. You offer your limp wristed support for freedom of speech when it costs nothing. You wave the white flag to your fellow Muslims if there is going to be any cost at all. And in realistic scenarios you support censorship, but you only talk about it in a limited and carefully selected set of contexts where you can make yourself look normal. You have spent the rest of the thread offering excuse after excuse for why you cannot possibly reveal the extent of your support for censorship, often invoking trickery on my part.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Adamant

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #491 - May 10^th, 2014 at 11:07am

Perhaps this is the version of free speech that Gandalf believes in FD

"Saudi Arabia is calling for anti-blasphemy laws in Norway, where “too little has been done to counter criticism against the prophet” and Muslim citizens have been victims of “hate crimes,” Grin

according to the nation of Muhammad’s birthplace. It has asked for the UN to review the situation."

http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/05/05/hypocrisy-anti-blasphemy-laws/

"Islamist governments sensed weakness, an opening, an opportunity. The United States was saying they had a point! So they took the next logical step.

Just weeks after the riots, the freshly chosen presidents of Egypt and Yemen took to the podium at the United Nations and demanded that blasphemy be outlawed everywhere in the world, including in the United States. “Insults against the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, are not acceptable,” said Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi. “We will not allow anyone to do this by word or by deed.” “There should be limits for the freedom of expression,” added Yemen’s president, Abed Rabbu Mansour Hadi, “especially if such freedom blasphemes the beliefs of nations and defames their figures.”

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/radical-islam%E2%80%99s-global-reacti...

It always has amazed me that Islamist's want this, have they though about the way Christians are blasphemed by Muslims. Every time they deny Jesus is the son of god should we slit their throats? I think it would be far easier for them to just shut up on this issue and slink away with tail between legs!

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In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52819 At my desk.	Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you Reply #492 - May 10^th, 2014 at 12:27pm Gandalf appears to think that we should agree to their terms, but only if they threaten to kill a few people if we don't. While everyone is being polite about it, we should hang on to freedom of speech.
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Melanias purse

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #493 - May 10^th, 2014 at 12:45pm

freediver wrote on May 10^th, 2014 at 12:27pm:

Gandalf appears to think that we should agree to their terms, but only if they threaten to kill a few people if we don't. While everyone is being polite about it, we should hang on to freedom of speech.

Does he? I recall a certain Freeedom-loving chap here who said we shouldn’t speak ill of his favourite political system lest the sinister forces of anti-Freeedom use it against us.

Loose lips sink ships, eh?

This chap said we shouldn’t criticize his beloved demokracy. Instead, we should say nice things about it in the hope that these awful Freeedom-hating people will think twice and join our side. We should put on a happy face and pretend Uncle and Mother have always been really nice to everyone - acting out of the kindness of their own hearts to lift the tinted world out of its primative ways.

Sure, we’ve had the odd disagreement along the way, but that’s all water under the bridge. We’re nice, the Muselman is hideous, and to say anything else is a form of treason.

We are at war, after all.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #494 - May 10^th, 2014 at 1:00pm

freediver wrote on May 10^th, 2014 at 10:17am:

That seems to be it. I'll elaborate for you. You offer your limp wristed support for freedom of speech when it costs nothing. You wave the white flag to your fellow Muslims if there is going to be any cost at all. And in realistic scenarios you support censorship, but you only talk about it in a limited and carefully selected set of contexts where you can make yourself look normal. You have spent the rest of the thread offering excuse after excuse for why you cannot possibly reveal the extent of your support for censorship, often invoking trickery on my part.

I support freedom of expression to the extent that it doesn't vilify or incite violence. I don't support censorship in the interests of pandering to those who threaten violence.

I don't support censorship where it merely offends. Evidently, 80% of the Australian population is even more limp wristed than me. Who'd've thought?

Adamant wrote on May 10^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Perhaps this is the version of free speech that Gandalf believes in FD

I support the freedom to line up each and every member of that kingdom's vile regime and having them summarily executed, and wipe their degenerate wahabism from the face of the earth.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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