This might refresh your memory, FD.

freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 5:49am:


You were telling us how our exporting Freedom and demokracy to the world is much more than cynical, wishy-washy Western values. Your point is it creates wealth.

Did you forget what we were discussing?

Give the bastards the chance to act civilised (our influence) but they stick with their Suhartos, Sukarnos, Nehrus, Ghandis, Marcoses and Mugabes and assorted other tribal, backward, primitive bastards.

And of course it IS the white man's burden when they do so. If you were to compel them to act right, they would denounce you as white colonialist beasts who takes away their precious innate tribal blood lust and hatred of each other (the stuff that has given their existence its miserable meaning for millennia). If you do NOT compel them, they will denounce you as white colonial corrupters and endorsers of their innate tribal blood lust and hatred of each other.

White man's burden = there is no cure for the resentment backward peoples because they realise, without words, that their only option is the white man's way. This means abandoning their very culture and who wants to do that? But there is no room for people with bones through their noses or sclerotic 7th century ideas in the heads, is there?
The world, like the caravan, has moved on. i

freediver wrote on Apr 30^th, 2014 at 8:04pm:


Are you trying to impose restrictions on my freedom of speech?

That’s not very demokratic.

If you don’t want to answer the questions, why don’t you just say?

Soren wrote on Apr 30^th, 2014 at 8:05pm:


Primative, backward bastards? White man’s burden? "Compelling" them?

Thanks, old chap. I’m starting to understand what FD means by Freedom and demokracy.

Sadly, he won’t say. I think he’s trying to keep it a secret.

freediver wrote on Apr 30^th, 2014 at 8:08pm:


Not at all. We’re going through each country we liberated in WWII to see how the allied powers introduced Freedom and demokracy. This was your claim, and you asked me to list them. Repeatedly.

Would you prefer me to list them alphabetically, or in order of Freeeedom?

Karnal wrote on Apr 29^th, 2014 at 9:00pm:



Well karnal, I am wary of muslims altogether in fact i support freedivers questioning of the islamic religion altogether and his conclusive opinions of it which are not far from mine.

Quote:


It has some genuine issues with that. The main one being with the concept of separation of church and state. Muhammed the warmonger, Muhammed the rulemaker, Muhammed the Caliph, etc etc set Islam on a very different path. It is hard to disentangle Muhammed's example from Islam. Gandalf claims to be able to, but won't let me in on the secret.

I think it is highly likely that this will happen in the 'Muslim world' over the next few centuries - but despite Islam and the best efforts of Muslims, not because of them. It will be interesting to see whether Islam is discarded in the process, or changes.

Quote:


Wouldn't the obvious approach to this be to list them and say which ones you think are free and democratic, and the extent to which you think the west contributed to this? You appear to trying to spread what should be done in one post over 50 pages. You won't do this of course, because you are dedicated to not seeing the wood for the trees.