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Sorry, I was joking when I suggested that by "inciting violence" you really meant that Muslims will go on a violent rampage if they don't get what they want. Is this what you mean - that you support censorship to appease Muslim nutjobs? Is this the same "incitement to violence" view you insist is shared by most normal Australians?

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I mocked your position. I didn't realise I was spot on with my mockery of your spineless apologetics. Now it is clear. Thanks.

freediver wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 6:03pm:


no sane person would choose people being killed over censorship - not even you. Its really that simple.

freediver wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 9:52pm:


ah yes, and we'll fight them on the beaches...

Just a hint FD - its this sort of Churchillian crap that earns you such labels as 'absolutist'

freediver wrote on Apr 15^th, 2014 at 12:16pm:


bump - I have been emailing a muslim i know.
He has the same backward repressive obsessive mindset as muslims here.

Islam's an infection.

You can't escape the Wiki, G. That one's going in for sure - spinelessly blaming Uncle for the invasion of Iraq. Typical.

FD supports freedom and demokracy - like George Bush. It's that simple. You Muselmen support tyranny - like that awful Saddam Hussein.

Trust a Muselman to try to make it all complicated.

Did someone say demokracy?

Karzai might have something to say about that.

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The Taliban are a symptom of Islam. Abu shared their view on democracy and freedom. Not because the Americans or Russians killed all his relatives. Because he is a Muslim.

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Crap. The Americans want to give them national independence and unity. They want to get out of there. The Taliban are fighting tooth and nail against it. The Taliban want it their way, and are willing to kill as many fellow Afghan Muslims as it takes to get their way. The Taliban are trying to keep the Americans there, because ongoing war is one of the things they want. They don't want independence, they want to do to the Americans what they did to the Russians, and are willing to sacrifice everything for it.

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How is fighting tooth and nail against democracy an opposition to foreign meddling? There is a very clear path for Afghans to run Afghanistan themselves. The Taliban is the only thing standing in their way. It is the Taliban that makes the Afgan government dependent on foreign power. The Taliban are not doing this because they are retarded and do not see the way forward. They are doing it because they are fundamentally opposed to freedom and democracy. Democracy will destroy the Taliban, and the Taliban are willing to destroy Afghanistan in their desperation to cling to power.

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Luckily they are a democracy, and can vote in a better lot soon.

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We spent that all that time in there establishing democracy because that was the only end game our society would support. It does not make sense to establish a client regime at the same time as establishing the institution by which the locals can easily turf it out. Reality just does not penetrate with you.

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What motives are you projecting on the west? It's like you swallowed some idiotic communist pamphlet and lost the ability to think for yourself. The west gave up slavery because it was ideologically opposed to slavery. The west gave up similar extractive institutions to slavery because we are ideologically opposed to them. The wealth, and consequent military superiority of the west are a result of, not a cause of, these changes in our society.

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We can claim the moral high ground because we are morally superior. We did not buy this moral superiority. Our moral superiority bought our wealth.

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Crap. They are the inevitable product of Islam. Most people living under foreign occupation dream of voting in their own leaders.

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Because the alternative was the Taliban, and the system they created would allow the Afghans to correct the problems. We know the Americans were intent on installing democracy because they paid such a heavy price to make it happen. How can you delude yourself into thinking anything else?

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Is that why they blow up police stations and polling booths? Were the dead American soldiers collateral damage?

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They have created a democracy. I would not call it strong. There is still a high risk that the Muslim nutjobs will destroy it. But the risk grows smaller each year. I expect it to survive, and once the Muslim nutjobs are put in their place, it will start to function a bit better, on account of it not happening in the middle of a civil war.

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Yet we are ideologically opposed to it.

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Why not?

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Obviously everyone was better off as the various revolutions took over more of the world and created a bigger global economy, but Britain was already reaping huge economic rewards from internal liberalisation before they were able to project military power. Where new colonies were built on slavery, or similar institutions, they eventually stagnated. Where they were based on more inclusive institutions, they flourished. This is what created the world you see around you today. It was not built on slavery. It was built on the abolition of slavery.

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I am not apologising for anything. I am just telling you how it is. It should be bleeding obvious. The richest countries today are the ones that abolished slavery and built inclusive institutions. They are the ones that value freedom and democracy the most. This is not a historical accident.