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Poll closed Poll
Question: Is the Great Barrier ReeF more important than Profits ?
*** This poll has now closed ***


Yes    
  5 (50.0%)
no    
  2 (20.0%)
Yes, depending on the current economic climate    
  1 (10.0%)
No ..Economic demands trump the Reef    
  0 (0.0%)
Yes.. without exception    
  0 (0.0%)
NO , altho some enviro issues may be consi    
  1 (10.0%)
No ...Our Country needs Mining profits regardless    
  0 (0.0%)
ABSOLUTELY YES ..IT IS    
  1 (10.0%)




Total votes: 10
« Created by: Emma on: Apr 30th, 2013 at 11:50pm »

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Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..??? (Read 16346 times)
Emma
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #75 - May 9th, 2013 at 11:17pm
 
yeah   Tongue Smiley
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Amadd
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #76 - May 10th, 2013 at 12:38am
 
Quote:
So saving something in the environment is feminist now? Or you just being a dick and calling it feminist because shes a female?

SOB


No, that's a non-sequitur.

And nobody is saving anything by saying something should be saved.
As I tried to explain, but you obviously didn't understand, enjoying the privileges of a rich country such as Australia means that you are enjoying it's profits at the expense of the environment.





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Emma
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #77 - May 10th, 2013 at 1:22am
 
Amadd wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 12:38am:
[quote]So saving something in the environment is feminist now? Or you just being a dick and calling it feminist because shes a female?

SOB


No, that's a non-sequitur.

  No it isn't..

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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #78 - May 10th, 2013 at 4:20am
 
Amadd wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 12:38am:
Quote:
So saving something in the environment is feminist now? Or you just being a dick and calling it feminist because shes a female?

SOB


No, that's a non-sequitur.

And nobody is saving anything by saying something should be saved.
As I tried to explain, but you obviously didn't understand, enjoying the privileges of a rich country such as Australia means that you are enjoying it's profits at the expense of the environment.







You didnt answer my question.

SOB
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Amadd
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #79 - May 10th, 2013 at 8:09am
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 4:20am:
Amadd wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 12:38am:
Quote:
So saving something in the environment is feminist now? Or you just being a dick and calling it feminist because shes a female?

SOB


No, that's a non-sequitur.

And nobody is saving anything by saying something should be saved.
As I tried to explain, but you obviously didn't understand, enjoying the privileges of a rich country such as Australia means that you are enjoying it's profits at the expense of the environment.







You didnt answer my question.

SOB


What part of "No" didn't you understand?
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #80 - May 10th, 2013 at 9:55am
 
Amadd wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 8:09am:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 4:20am:
Amadd wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 12:38am:
Quote:
So saving something in the environment is feminist now? Or you just being a dick and calling it feminist because shes a female?

SOB


No, that's a non-sequitur.

And nobody is saving anything by saying something should be saved.
As I tried to explain, but you obviously didn't understand, enjoying the privileges of a rich country such as Australia means that you are enjoying it's profits at the expense of the environment.







You didnt answer my question.

SOB


What part of "No" didn't you understand?


So then what is the feminism? the fact that shes female?

SOB
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Amadd
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #81 - May 10th, 2013 at 5:06pm
 
Yes Emma is a feminist. Do you really need to be told that?

Just because Emma is female and a feminist, it doesn't stand true that all women are feminists and there is a requirement to be a feminist in order to post something about the barrier reef.



Here's an example of a statement which has agreeable logic:

Emma is a female and a feminist.
All feminists are hypocrites.
Emma is a hypocrite.


In this statement, the logic follows, regardless of any requirement for a hypocrite to be a feminist or female, or indeed any requirement for a feminist to be female.
The only assertion made in that example is that feminists are hypocrites.

The short answer I gave you was "No, it's a non-sequitur", because the logic you used was false.






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Emma
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #82 - May 10th, 2013 at 8:20pm
 
Amadd wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 12:51am:
Emma wrote on May 8th, 2013 at 7:45pm:
How about you make a Poll on this  ??
There are many opportunities for you to proceed.

I don't castigate people for favouring planet over profit.

To me..it seems the only sensible next step for humans to take.


My point was that it's easy to say that you favour the environment over profits, but not so simple to do.

Yes I could start a poll and ask people if they'd give up all animal products in the hope of saving the reef.
I could also go further and ask if they'd give up all agricultural products.
I could also ask if they'd forego an education for their children or medical treatment for a sick child or parent if were to be too much strain on the environment.
..Or I could ask if they'd be happy with no new Infrastructures or upkeep on the existing. ..The list goes on.

The uproar over the carbon tax alone should be enough of an indication as to how serious our nation's people really are about making a difference to the environment. It's all well and good as long as it doesn't have the potential to hit the wallet.

Unfortunately, it's the very poor nations who are the world's most environmentally friendly per capita...not by any specific choice of course. And not many of us here would honestly agree to live under those types of hardships if we have the choice either.

I'm not castigating people over being well intended. I'm glad that you started this thread in the hope that one or two might see that they really aren't all that prepared to give up their lifestyle (which stems from company profits) for the environment.

The world economy is already in dire trouble, IMO more because we've been saturated with products that are cluttering, unnecessary and becoming obsolete than any real thought for the environment.

As well as the exponential growth thing being proven a furphy, it's also up to us to personally do our bit to further cut demand.
I try to cut demand in full expectation that it's going to impact on me in later years barring some massive advances in renewable energy production.
Most other people, especially from other nations, will be putting their heads on the chopping block far more than me if they want to endeavour to help the environment.






I commend you Amadd,  .. well written and reasoned.

I think you are correct.  To use an old term...  consumerism..seems to be the raison d'etre for living today,. the ACQUISITION of GOODS... 
not really new is it...  keeping up with the Joneses.. Roll Eyes

I had hoped it would die a reasonably swift death, as reality came home...   Sadly our media have vested interest in the status quo,  and so it continues to be-devil us to this day.

Well... not me personally...   Smiley

I have a fridge, a TV, a washing machine and this comp.  I have a waterpump. And a sullage pump.
These are the only electrical products I use regularly/or daily. O yeah... there's my security system and electric remote-controlled gate, and my electric taped fence barrier. 

HMMMM   ..we become so accustomed to things, they assume the identity of our environment.
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Amadd
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #83 - May 11th, 2013 at 1:46am
 
Quote:
I commend you Amadd,  .. well written and reasoned.

I think you are correct.  To use an old term...  consumerism..seems to be the raison d'etre for living today,. the ACQUISITION of GOODS... 
not really new is it...  keeping up with the Joneses.. Roll Eyes

I had hoped it would die a reasonably swift death, as reality came home...   Sadly our media have vested interest in the status quo,  and so it continues to be-devil us to this day.

Well... not me personally...   Smiley

I have a fridge, a TV, a washing machine and this comp.  I have a waterpump. And a sullage pump.
These are the only electrical products I use regularly/or daily. O yeah... there's my security system and electric remote-controlled gate, and my electric taped fence barrier. 

HMMMM   ..we become so accustomed to things, they assume the identity of our environment.


Well thankyou for realising that there are far more emissions involved in a so-called environmentally friendly lifestyle than meets the eye.
A more detailed estimation of our personal carbon footprints can be done here:
http://www.carbonneutral.com.au/

..Then there's our indirect emissions to be added.

When comparing our per capita emissions here in Australia to a poor country such as India, it's pretty daunting to think of what we would really need to sacrifice in order to achieve their levels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_c...
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Emma
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #84 - May 11th, 2013 at 2:12am
 
we seem to be on parallel tracks..

An example of govt unconcern...?

In Q .. the Newman govt has removed the requirement that new build homes should have a rainwater tank..

...ostensibly because the cost reduction for a new build would encourage  more homes to be built..
Doesn't  make sense to me.  Sad
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #85 - May 11th, 2013 at 4:27am
 
Amadd wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 5:06pm:
Yes Emma is a feminist. Do you really need to be told that?

Just because Emma is female and a feminist, it doesn't stand true that all women are feminists and there is a requirement to be a feminist in order to post something about the barrier reef.



Here's an example of a statement which has agreeable logic:

Emma is a female and a feminist.
All feminists are hypocrites.
Emma is a hypocrite.


In this statement, the logic follows, regardless of any requirement for a hypocrite to be a feminist or female, or indeed any requirement for a feminist to be female.
The only assertion made in that example is that feminists are hypocrites.

The short answer I gave you was "No, it's a non-sequitur", because the logic you used was false.








And yet you say all feminists are hypocrites?

As for my logic - you were the one calling her a feminist and making out it was because she wants to save the reef.

SOB
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #86 - May 11th, 2013 at 10:30am
 
Quote:
And yet you say all feminists are hypocrites?


The (slightly tongue in cheek) example I gave you there Spot was to show that there is only one assertion made in the statement.

Quote:
As for my logic - you were the one calling her a feminist and making out it was because she wants to save the reef.


The conclusion you are coming to is like saying "All terrorists are Islamic, all muslims are Islamic, therefore all muslims are terrorists".

Didn't you once have something similar as a footnote?


If I was alluding to anything, it was the common misconception that jumping up and down telling companies not to make profits helps save the environment, when we all expect this country to be profitable enough to sustain something close to (or even better than) the lifestyle in which we've become accustomed.






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Emma
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #87 - May 13th, 2013 at 1:42am
 
bump???
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Emma
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #88 - May 13th, 2013 at 1:50am
 
I don't entirely agree with that.

The ONLY way things change..outside the square..IS if enough individuals get together and make lots of protests and pester their parliamentarian... for example.

You are suggesting there has never been a successful result from peaceful activism.
Surely not...  do you..?
...  there are many many examples to show your view is not so.

The difficulty is in getting ENOUGH people to commit...  but do NOT denigrate and minimise the power of public opinion and mutally beneficial activism.
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Re: Great Barrier Reef...will WE destroy it..???
Reply #89 - May 13th, 2013 at 5:29am
 
Amadd wrote on May 11th, 2013 at 10:30am:
If I was alluding to anything, it was the common misconception that jumping up and down telling companies not to make profits helps save the environment, when we all expect this country to be profitable enough to sustain something close to (or even better than) the lifestyle in which we've become accustomed.



We can tell those companies that are wrecking the reef to go around it for less profit.

SOB
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