Australian Politics Forum - Margaret Thatcher Dead

Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Margaret Thatcher Dead Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:05pm I find it difficult to feel any sympathy when I remember her protection of Chile's Augusto Pinochet. She was a strong woman surrounded by a bunch of spineless men.
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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead Reply #1 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:07pm RIP
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead Reply #2 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:17pm R.I.P.
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Bobby.

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Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead
Reply #3 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:27pm

She committed a war crime -
the sinking of the general Belgrano:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano

Quote:

The ARA General Belgrano was an Argentine Navy light cruiser in service from 1951 until 1982. Previously named USS Phoenix, she saw action in the Pacific theater of World War II before being sold to Argentina. The vessel was the second to have been named after the Argentine founding father Manuel Belgrano (1770–1820). The first vessel was a 7,069-ton armoured cruiser completed in 1899.

After almost 31 years of service, she was sunk during the Falklands War (Spanish: Guerra de las Malvinas) by the Royal Navy submarine Conqueror with the loss of 323 lives. Losses from the Belgrano totalled just over half of Argentine deaths in the Falklands War.

She is the only ship ever to have been sunk in anger by a nuclear-powered submarine[1] and the second sunk in action by any type of submarine since World War II, the first being the Indian frigate INS Khukri by the Pakistani Hangor during the 1971 Indo-Pakistani War. The sinking of the Belgrano was highly controversial in both Britain and Argentina at the time and remains controversial to this day.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead
Reply #4 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:33pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:27pm:

She committed a war crime -
the sinking of the general Belgrano:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano

Quote:

The ARA General Belgrano was an Argentine Navy light cruiser in service from 1951 until 1982. Previously named USS Phoenix, she saw action in the Pacific theater of World War II before being sold to Argentina. The vessel was the second to have been named after the Argentine founding father Manuel Belgrano (1770–1820). The first vessel was a 7,069-ton armoured cruiser completed in 1899.

After almost 31 years of service, she was sunk during the Falklands War (Spanish: Guerra de las Malvinas) by the Royal Navy submarine Conqueror with the loss of 323 lives. Losses from the Belgrano totalled just over half of Argentine deaths in the Falklands War.

She is the only ship ever to have been sunk in anger by a nuclear-powered submarine[1] and the second sunk in action by any type of submarine since World War II, the first being the Indian frigate INS Khukri by the Pakistani Hangor during the 1971 Indo-Pakistani War. The sinking of the Belgrano was highly controversial in both Britain and Argentina at the time and remains controversial to this day.

It's not a 'war crime' to kill enemy combatants in war and never has been.
It's kinda the point of the exercise.
Perhaps your missing what constitutes a military objective in wartime?

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead Reply #5 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:36pm She succeeded as a politician by being more masculine than the men who surrounded her. Her greatest qualities were intolerance, aggression and hatred. Thatcher was a woman in a man's body with all the negative male qualities and no female ones.
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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29173 Gender:	Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead Reply #6 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:46pm Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:05pm: I find it difficult to feel any sympathy when I remember her protection of Chile's Augusto Pinochet. She was a strong woman surrounded by a bunch of spineless men. Lets not forget the Falklands War - more military personnel died than there were residents on the island.
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Bobby.

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Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead
Reply #7 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:47pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:33pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:27pm:

She committed a war crime -
the sinking of the general Belgrano:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano

Quote:

The ARA General Belgrano was an Argentine Navy light cruiser in service from 1951 until 1982. Previously named USS Phoenix, she saw action in the Pacific theater of World War II before being sold to Argentina. The vessel was the second to have been named after the Argentine founding father Manuel Belgrano (1770–1820). The first vessel was a 7,069-ton armoured cruiser completed in 1899.

After almost 31 years of service, she was sunk during the Falklands War (Spanish: Guerra de las Malvinas) by the Royal Navy submarine Conqueror with the loss of 323 lives. Losses from the Belgrano totalled just over half of Argentine deaths in the Falklands War.

She is the only ship ever to have been sunk in anger by a nuclear-powered submarine[1] and the second sunk in action by any type of submarine since World War II, the first being the Indian frigate INS Khukri by the Pakistani Hangor during the 1971 Indo-Pakistani War. The sinking of the Belgrano was highly controversial in both Britain and Argentina at the time and remains controversial to this day.

It's not a 'war crime' to kill enemy combatants in war and never has been.
It's kinda the point of the exercise.
Perhaps your missing what constitutes a military objective in wartime?

That's rubbish.
The ship was outside the exclusion zone in international waters & was
full of young trainees on their way back to Argentina from South Africa.
Up to that stage no shots had been fired between British & Argentinian forces.

It was a war crime.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead
Reply #8 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:53pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:47pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:33pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:27pm:

She committed a war crime -
the sinking of the general Belgrano:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano

Quote:

The ARA General Belgrano was an Argentine Navy light cruiser in service from 1951 until 1982. Previously named USS Phoenix, she saw action in the Pacific theater of World War II before being sold to Argentina. The vessel was the second to have been named after the Argentine founding father Manuel Belgrano (1770–1820). The first vessel was a 7,069-ton armoured cruiser completed in 1899.

After almost 31 years of service, she was sunk during the Falklands War (Spanish: Guerra de las Malvinas) by the Royal Navy submarine Conqueror with the loss of 323 lives. Losses from the Belgrano totalled just over half of Argentine deaths in the Falklands War.

She is the only ship ever to have been sunk in anger by a nuclear-powered submarine[1] and the second sunk in action by any type of submarine since World War II, the first being the Indian frigate INS Khukri by the Pakistani Hangor during the 1971 Indo-Pakistani War. The sinking of the Belgrano was highly controversial in both Britain and Argentina at the time and remains controversial to this day.

It's not a 'war crime' to kill enemy combatants in war and never has been.
It's kinda the point of the exercise.
Perhaps your missing what constitutes a military objective in wartime?

That's rubbish.
The ship was outside the exclusion zone in international waters & was
full of young trainees on their way back to Argentina from South Africa.
Up to that stage no shots had been fired between British & Argentinian forces.

It was a war crime.

I've read the book on the sinking of the Belgrano and that ship was sailing FROM Argentina TO the Falkland Islands. It was on course to enter waters around the Falklands and was a legitimate target. Having said that, I believe this war was a huge mistake for both countries and should never have happened. More military personnel died during the conflict than the total number of residents on the Falkland Islands. Such a waste.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead
Reply #9 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:54pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:47pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:33pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:27pm:

She committed a war crime -
the sinking of the general Belgrano:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano

Quote:

The ARA General Belgrano was an Argentine Navy light cruiser in service from 1951 until 1982. Previously named USS Phoenix, she saw action in the Pacific theater of World War II before being sold to Argentina. The vessel was the second to have been named after the Argentine founding father Manuel Belgrano (1770–1820). The first vessel was a 7,069-ton armoured cruiser completed in 1899.

After almost 31 years of service, she was sunk during the Falklands War (Spanish: Guerra de las Malvinas) by the Royal Navy submarine Conqueror with the loss of 323 lives. Losses from the Belgrano totalled just over half of Argentine deaths in the Falklands War.

She is the only ship ever to have been sunk in anger by a nuclear-powered submarine[1] and the second sunk in action by any type of submarine since World War II, the first being the Indian frigate INS Khukri by the Pakistani Hangor during the 1971 Indo-Pakistani War. The sinking of the Belgrano was highly controversial in both Britain and Argentina at the time and remains controversial to this day.

It's not a 'war crime' to kill enemy combatants in war and never has been.
It's kinda the point of the exercise.
Perhaps your missing what constitutes a military objective in wartime?

That's rubbish.
The ship was outside the exclusion zone in international waters & was
full of young trainees on their way back to Argentina from South Africa.
Up to that stage no shots had been fired between British & Argentinian forces.

It was a war crime.

I've read the book on the sinking of the Belgrano and that ship was sailing FROM Argentina TO the Falkland Islands. It was on course to enter waters around the Falklands and was a legitimate target. Having said that, I believe this war was a huge mistake for both countries and should never have happened. More military personnel died during the conflict than the total number of residents on the Falkland Islands. Such a waste.

lies.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead
Reply #10 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 11:11pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:54pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:47pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:33pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 10:27pm:

She committed a war crime -
the sinking of the general Belgrano:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano

Quote:

The ARA General Belgrano was an Argentine Navy light cruiser in service from 1951 until 1982. Previously named USS Phoenix, she saw action in the Pacific theater of World War II before being sold to Argentina. The vessel was the second to have been named after the Argentine founding father Manuel Belgrano (1770–1820). The first vessel was a 7,069-ton armoured cruiser completed in 1899.

After almost 31 years of service, she was sunk during the Falklands War (Spanish: Guerra de las Malvinas) by the Royal Navy submarine Conqueror with the loss of 323 lives. Losses from the Belgrano totalled just over half of Argentine deaths in the Falklands War.

She is the only ship ever to have been sunk in anger by a nuclear-powered submarine[1] and the second sunk in action by any type of submarine since World War II, the first being the Indian frigate INS Khukri by the Pakistani Hangor during the 1971 Indo-Pakistani War. The sinking of the Belgrano was highly controversial in both Britain and Argentina at the time and remains controversial to this day.

It's not a 'war crime' to kill enemy combatants in war and never has been.
It's kinda the point of the exercise.
Perhaps your missing what constitutes a military objective in wartime?

That's rubbish.
The ship was outside the exclusion zone in international waters & was
full of young trainees on their way back to Argentina from South Africa.
Up to that stage no shots had been fired between British & Argentinian forces.

It was a war crime.

I've read the book on the sinking of the Belgrano and that ship was sailing FROM Argentina TO the Falkland Islands. It was on course to enter waters around the Falklands and was a legitimate target. Having said that, I believe this war was a huge mistake for both countries and should never have happened. More military personnel died during the conflict than the total number of residents on the Falkland Islands. Such a waste.

lies.

It is actually not. It's fact-based and includes extensive interviews with both British government and military people as well as high-ranking Argentinian military personnel. Have you even read the book to which I am referring? I suggest you should before putting your foot in it any further.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 120874 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead Reply #11 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 11:14pm Rubbish - The General Belgrano was heading away from the Falklands when it was sunk. Thatcher has the blood of 323 young men on her hands.
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead
Reply #12 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 11:19pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 11:14pm:

Rubbish - The General Belgrano was heading away from the Falklands when it was sunk.

Thatcher has the blood of 323 young men on her hands.

Clearly, you have no idea. It was to the north of the islands and was ordered south by the Argentinian junta. This signal was intercepted by the British and she was sunk as she headed toward (not away from) the Falkland Islands. Read the book.

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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead Reply #13 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 11:25pm The Falklands was the one decision she got right IMO. ...Oh what's the point, R.I.P
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Bobby.

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Re: Margaret Thatcher Dead
Reply #14 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 11:27pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 11:19pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 8^th, 2013 at 11:14pm:

Rubbish - The General Belgrano was heading away from the Falklands when it was sunk.

Thatcher has the blood of 323 young men on her hands.

Clearly, you have no idea. It was to the north of the islands and was ordered south by the Argentinian junta. This signal was intercepted by the British and she was sunk as she headed toward (not away from) the Falkland Islands. Read the book.

Rubbish.

http://belgranoinquiry.com/

Quote:

The sinking of the Belgrano became a cause célèbre for anti-war campaigners in Britain. This was for a variety of reasons, including the ship being well outside the 200 mile (320 kilometre) Total Exclusion Zone that the British had declared around the Falklands, because the ship was on a westerly heading at the time it was attacked, and because a Peruvian peace proposal was still on the table at the time of the attack.

Was the sinking of the Belgrano justifiable under international law?

Some argue that, the ship being outside the British-declared Total Exclusion Zone would not affect this analysis, since the British Government stated on April 23rd, that ‘the approach’ of any warship or aircraft ‘which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of the British forces in the South Atlantic’ would encounter an ‘appropriate’ response. The Belgrano was neither ‘approaching’ the task force and was it a ‘threat’? That statement was put out while the British task force was still travelling South, as a warning that any approaching aircraft etc might be shot. Once the Task Force had arrived, it then announced on 28 April the Total Exclusion Zone – and, that would have superceded an earlier statement. War was not declared, that is why these definitions were important.

Yes - it was a war crime.

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