Australian Politics Forum - How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22392
A cat with a view

Re: How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia
Reply #30 - Oct 7^th, 2013 at 10:05pm

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2013 at 1:26am:

Yadda wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia

Q.
What is wrong with democracy in Australia ?

A.
Too many selfish, unthinking idiots, are allowed to vote. imo Grin

It's time to elect a new people.

It is human to look into our [own] hearts, and to imagine that we [collectively] have the capacity to solve all of the problems that we encounter in this life.

But it is a mistake for us to imagine that we [mankind] can be a source of a solution to that persistent problem which ails us.

But don't give up [i.e. do not lose all hope].

The solution, is not what we [can] bring to this world.

The solution, is what we 'take' from this world, imo.

[And some of us, sadly, [will] take absolutely nothing.]

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Chimp_Logic Gold Member Offline πολιτικός Posts: 4826 Mawson Base Gender:	Re: How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia Reply #31 - Oct 14^th, 2013 at 11:45pm you cant reform what you DONT have. you need a revolution to implement a democracy What we have now is an Oligarchical Corpocracy - a form of fascist tyranny You don't reform this monster - you expose it, you fight it, you kill it and hopefully in its void you plant a fresh seedling called freedom
Back to top	Mini Ice Age (2014-2029) Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid

Gold Member

Offline

International socialist

Posts: 892
Gender: male

Re: How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia
Reply #32 - Oct 15^th, 2013 at 9:16am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 11:45pm:

you cant reform what you DONT have.

you need a revolution to implement a democracy

What we have now is an Oligarchical Corpocracy - a form of fascist tyranny

You don't reform this monster - you expose it, you fight it, you kill it and hopefully in its void you plant a fresh seedling called freedom

Excellent propaganda, Comrade. It's all there: Slogans pertaining to the hatred of capitalism and then the slogan freedom. Good stuff; minimal detail but very stirring. I think we progressives can stir up the rabble with this.

Back to top

Only the boat people can save us from our own evil.

IP Logged

BigOl64 Gold Member Offline Posts: 14438 Townsville QLD Gender:	Re: How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia Reply #33 - Oct 15^th, 2013 at 9:20am Codify our basic human rights and then tell the government to bugger off and leave us alone Vasty less government would be good government, having every aspect of ones life micro managed by a bunch self serving dead-sh1ts does not facilitate democracy
Back to top	IP Logged

Chimp_Logic

Gold Member

Offline

πολιτικός

Posts: 4826
Mawson Base
Gender: male

Re: How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia
Reply #34 - Oct 15^th, 2013 at 9:56am

BigOl64 wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 9:20am:

Codify our basic human rights and then tell the government to bugger off and leave us alone

Vasty less government would be good government, having every aspect of ones life micro managed by a bunch self serving dead-sh1ts does not facilitate democracy

This is a very important point to raise.

In Australia we don't have any rights or freedoms that are enshrined in a constitution or bill of rights document that ALL courts and governments must adhere to.

In fact the Australian constitution mainly deals with the financial and jurisdictional arrangements between the STATES and the federal government in Canberra.

The USA may well have the strongest constitutional protections for their citizens in the world. Problem is TODAY the USA has effectively suspended the constitution (via the Patriots acts) and dismantled most of the protections contained in the bill of rights and its amendments (via the NDAA and other acts of Congress)

Totally illegal and unconstitutional incidentally. BUT we must remember the USA is officially in a permanent state of WAR - this time against these mythical evil terrorists (who they fund anyway)

In Australia, the military can be unleashed upon its own people. This could not be done in the USA, until OBama signed the recently introduced NDAA, which enables the US military to arrest without charge, deport, and strip citizenship rights from US citizens (and of course they deport so that they can torture)

On a side note. THe US supreme court actually passed a ruling in 2010, that gave corporations the same rights and protections as a US citizen. The Supreme court judges voted narrowly in favour of a corporation being classified as a PERSON (nuts).

Back to top

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22392
A cat with a view

Re: How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia
Reply #35 - Oct 15^th, 2013 at 9:57am

BigOl64 wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 9:20am:

Codify our basic human rights and then tell the government to bugger off and leave us alone

Vasty less government would be good government, having every aspect of ones life micro managed by a bunch self serving dead-sh1ts does not facilitate democracy

The 'founding fathers' of the USA devised an elegant [and mostly, a very just] system of government for men, imo.

I think that the 'founding fathers' of the USA understood the dangers of giving too much authority to elected representatives, and they tried to set 'safeguards' in the US system, against all forms of 'big government'.

But no matter what 'perfection' men may begin with, men will always tend to corrupt themselves.

And subsequent generations of US administrations have exploited every loophole, or even ignored many of the 'safeguards', which the 'founding fathers' of the USA tried to entrench in public governance.

Quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; etc, etc.

Google;
Congress shall make no law

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Pantheon Gold Member Offline Woke Posts: 1256 Gender:	Re: How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia Reply #36 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 11:31am So in short, a good way to at less start reform is to have our rights and freedoms enshrined in a constitution and return the powers gain by the Federal Government returned to the states?
Back to top	[b][center]Socialism had been tried on every continent on earth. In light of its results, it's time to question the motives of its advocates. IP Logged

Chimp_Logic

Gold Member

Offline

πολιτικός

Posts: 4826
Mawson Base
Gender: male

Re: How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia
Reply #37 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 11:40am

Pantheon wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 11:31am:

So in short, a good way to at less start reform is to have our rights and freedoms enshrined in a constitution and return the powers gain by the Federal Government returned to the states?

enshrining freedoms and rights is paramount (a first step).

The states are irrelevant. You can remove them, wont make any difference. Perhaps better if that level of governance was dismantled. It tends to encourage devolution, which favours large corpocratic and private structures to dominate and control individual states but pitting one against the other. This is a lot harder to achieve on a national governmental level.

Australias constitution merely relates to the financial and power arrangements between the states and the federal government - nothing else. There are no human rights or freedoms protected in the AUstralian constitution

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 16^th, 2013 at 12:03pm by Chimp_Logic »

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

IP Logged

Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia Reply #38 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 11:42am Welcome to Yaddaville, Silvio Belersconi Rules okay. Yadda if over 50% of the people take the money that means the people vote not to have a government, (or it ought to).
Back to top	"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22392
A cat with a view

Re: How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia
Reply #39 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 9:27pm

Grey wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 11:42am:

Welcome to Yaddaville, Silvio Belersconi Rules okay.

Yadda if over 50% of the people take the money that means the people vote not to have a government, (or it ought to).

Grey,

'Voting in' pollies, effectively, gives pollies the authority to make choices for us [because we elected the pollies, and GAVE/SURRENDERED TO THE POLLIES, our own political authority].

And so, electing a group of pollies to parliament, gives 'legitimacy' to an elected government.

So Grey, if we [the citizens] could somehow demonstrate [to everyone] that the pollies [and the government they form], DO NOT REALLY HAVE ANY REAL LEGITIMACY [e.g. because a majority of the citizens do not have any confidence in the integrity of those who have been elected], would that be a bad thing ?

i.e.
I am not arguing for, or to confirm, the 'legitimacy' of 'democratic' governments.

I am arguing for much more accountability, of those persons who we are forced to to give our political authority to [when we, the citizens, are required by law, to 'attend' to cast a vote, to elect a person who has made promises, about how he/she will [by proxy] wield OUR political authority].

Grey,

I am not quite, an anarchist.

But we are not that far apart.

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Grey

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5341
Gender: male

Re: How we CAN, reform democracy in Australia
Reply #40 - Oct 17^th, 2013 at 12:39am

Yadda wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

Grey wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 11:42am:

Welcome to Yaddaville, Silvio Belersconi Rules okay.

Yadda if over 50% of the people take the money that means the people vote not to have a government, (or it ought to).

Grey,

'Voting in' pollies, effectively, gives pollies the authority to make choices for us [because we elected the pollies, and GAVE/SURRENDERED TO THE POLLIES, our own political authority].

And so, electing a group of pollies to parliament, gives 'legitimacy' to an elected government.

So Grey, if we [the citizens] could somehow demonstrate [to everyone] that the pollies [and the government they form], DO NOT REALLY HAVE ANY REAL LEGITIMACY [e.g. because a majority of the citizens do not have any confidence in the integrity of those who have been elected], would that be a bad thing ?

i.e.
I am not arguing for, or to confirm, the 'legitimacy' of 'democratic' governments.

I am arguing for much more accountability, of those persons who we are forced to to give our political authority to [when we, the citizens, are required by law, to 'attend' to cast a vote, to elect a person who has made promises, about how he/she will [by proxy] wield OUR political authority].

Grey,

I am not quite, an anarchist.

But we are not that far apart.

Well I'm glad you're coming around Yadda, but you started off the thread implying that those who took the money would be idiots. I'd rather think that they'd be the smart ones, better to have $200 than to take part in a farce.

Back to top

"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

IP Logged