Australian Politics Forum - Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white

Swagman

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Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Apr 4^th, 2013 at 12:51pm

Just paint your roof white and you can stop the sky falling in....good old direct action.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/painting-roofs-white-is-...

Quote:

Painting roofs white and using light-coloured materials to surface roads and pavements would not only make cities cooler in summer, it would save the same amount of carbon as taking all the cars in the world off the roads for 50 years, a study has found. One of the simplest, yet most effective, ways of engineering the urban environment to cope with global warming is to increase the reflectivity of the cityscape so that more of the incoming sunlight is directed back into space, scientists said. City buildings in warm climates with "cool coloured" surfaces that reflect infra-red radiation would also be cooler than traditional buildings and so would conserve energy – and carbon – that would otherwise be used on air conditioning.

The Eco-Socialists won't promote this simple anti-global warming tactic because it doesn't undermine big corporates and redistribute income and wealth. Sad

Big corporates would likely make more money out of people painting their roofs..... Grin

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John Smith

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #1 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:07pm

Swagman wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

Just paint your roof white and you can stop the sky falling in....good old direct action.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/painting-roofs-white-is-...

Quote:

Painting roofs white and using light-coloured materials to surface roads and pavements would not only make cities cooler in summer, it would save the same amount of carbon as taking all the cars in the world off the roads for 50 years, a study has found. One of the simplest, yet most effective, ways of engineering the urban environment to cope with global warming is to increase the reflectivity of the cityscape so that more of the incoming sunlight is directed back into space, scientists said. City buildings in warm climates with "cool coloured" surfaces that reflect infra-red radiation would also be cooler than traditional buildings and so would conserve energy – and carbon – that would otherwise be used on air conditioning.

The Eco-Socialists won't promote this simple anti-global warming tactic because it doesn't undermine big corporates and redistribute income and wealth. Sad

Big corporates would likely make more money out of people painting their roofs..... Grin

you don't think so? how much money is currently being spent on painting roads? ... every main road would need to get repainted once a month for it to stay white ... takes money away from fixing the roads to painting them ... the pothole doesn't matter, we'll paint it white and no one will know it's there, end of pothole.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #2 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:16pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:07pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

Just paint your roof white and you can stop the sky falling in....good old direct action.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/painting-roofs-white-is-...

Quote:

Painting roofs white and using light-coloured materials to surface roads and pavements would not only make cities cooler in summer, it would save the same amount of carbon as taking all the cars in the world off the roads for 50 years, a study has found. One of the simplest, yet most effective, ways of engineering the urban environment to cope with global warming is to increase the reflectivity of the cityscape so that more of the incoming sunlight is directed back into space, scientists said. City buildings in warm climates with "cool coloured" surfaces that reflect infra-red radiation would also be cooler than traditional buildings and so would conserve energy – and carbon – that would otherwise be used on air conditioning.

The Eco-Socialists won't promote this simple anti-global warming tactic because it doesn't undermine big corporates and redistribute income and wealth. Sad

Big corporates would likely make more money out of people painting their roofs..... Grin

you don't think so? how much money is currently being spent on painting roads? ... every main road would need to get repainted once a month for it to stay white ... takes money away from fixing the roads to painting them ... the pothole doesn't matter, we'll paint it white and no one will know it's there, end of pothole.

once a month?

THe standard re-painting time frame is about once every 18 months - sometime longer

No roads are re-painted on a monthly basis to my knowledge

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freediver

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #3 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:49pm

Swagman wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

Just paint your roof white and you can stop the sky falling in....good old direct action.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/painting-roofs-white-is-...

Quote:

Painting roofs white and using light-coloured materials to surface roads and pavements would not only make cities cooler in summer, it would save the same amount of carbon as taking all the cars in the world off the roads for 50 years, a study has found. One of the simplest, yet most effective, ways of engineering the urban environment to cope with global warming is to increase the reflectivity of the cityscape so that more of the incoming sunlight is directed back into space, scientists said. City buildings in warm climates with "cool coloured" surfaces that reflect infra-red radiation would also be cooler than traditional buildings and so would conserve energy – and carbon – that would otherwise be used on air conditioning.

The Eco-Socialists won't promote this simple anti-global warming tactic because it doesn't undermine big corporates and redistribute income and wealth. Sad

Big corporates would likely make more money out of people painting their roofs..... Grin

And just like Tony Abbott's "direct action" appeal to the common man who has no clue about economics, it costs a lot more and is based on far more dubious science than the global warming he rejected until very recently.

Why are people so willing to cling to ideas they understand from a technical perspective and throw economic issues (like something as simple as what does it cost) out the window?

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white Reply #4 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:53pm No carbon tax is cheaper than having a carbon tax FD. There's simple economics there. NO TAX = CHEAPER THAN A TAX
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freediver

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #5 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:59pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:53pm:

No carbon tax is cheaper than having a carbon tax FD.

There's simple economics there.

NO TAX = CHEAPER THAN A TAX

This is why Abbott is appealing so hard to people who do not understand economics.

The truth is, the tax itself costs nothing. If you offset it with tax cuts elsewhere, there is no increase in the overall tax burden. You can even get a decrease if you do it well.

True costs only come when there is a change in the total tax burden, and when people start spending money to reduce their GHG emissions. The great thing about a carbon tax (this is why Tony Abbott spent a lot of his career promoting it) is that without any need for direct government involvement in every little decision, companies and individuals with reduce their GHG emissions where it can be done cheaply. Direct action inevitably results in some of the most expensive options for reducing GHG emissions. A carbon tax inevitably results in the cheapest options, and there are plenty of cheap options going all the way down to zero net cost.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #6 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 2:13pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:59pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:53pm:

No carbon tax is cheaper than having a carbon tax FD.

There's simple economics there.

NO TAX = CHEAPER THAN A TAX

This is why Abbott is appealing so hard to people who do not understand economics.

The truth is, the tax itself costs nothing. If you offset it with tax cuts elsewhere, there is no increase in the overall tax burden. You can even get a decrease if you do it well.

True costs only come when there is a change in the total tax burden, and when people start spending money to reduce their GHG emissions. The great thing about a carbon tax (this is why Tony Abbott spent a lot of his career promoting it) is that without any need for direct government involvement in every little decision, companies and individuals with reduce their GHG emissions where it can be done cheaply. Direct action inevitably results in some of the most expensive options for reducing GHG emissions. A carbon tax inevitably results in the cheapest options, and there are plenty of cheap options going all the way down to zero net cost.

Pretty sure it costs a family more than the $3 per year tax cut.

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Swagman

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #7 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 2:31pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:07pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

Just paint your roof white and you can stop the sky falling in....good old direct action.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/painting-roofs-white-is-...

Quote:

Painting roofs white and using light-coloured materials to surface roads and pavements would not only make cities cooler in summer, it would save the same amount of carbon as taking all the cars in the world off the roads for 50 years, a study has found. One of the simplest, yet most effective, ways of engineering the urban environment to cope with global warming is to increase the reflectivity of the cityscape so that more of the incoming sunlight is directed back into space, scientists said. City buildings in warm climates with "cool coloured" surfaces that reflect infra-red radiation would also be cooler than traditional buildings and so would conserve energy – and carbon – that would otherwise be used on air conditioning.

The Eco-Socialists won't promote this simple anti-global warming tactic because it doesn't undermine big corporates and redistribute income and wealth. Sad

Big corporates would likely make more money out of people painting their roofs..... Grin

you don't think so? how much money is currently being spent on painting roads? ... every main road would need to get repainted once a month for it to stay white ... takes money away from fixing the roads to painting them ... the pothole doesn't matter, we'll paint it white and no one will know it's there, end of pothole.

If you read the link it recommends colouring the roads etc when it's resurfaced not as a special matter.

What about roofs? Might look a bit bland but there's no reason why white shouldn't be the staple colour to save the world?

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:49pm:

And just like Tony Abbott's "direct action" appeal to the common man who has no clue about economics, it costs a lot more and is based on far more dubious science than the global warming he rejected until very recently.

What is dubious about the science and the cost is bugga all?

A roof paint over costs a couple of grand at the most. Most roofs eventually need a re-coat. When re-coated paint them white. White is the base colour for most paints anyway. Some councils already have local plans where colourbond fences etc have to be one colour for trendy asthetics, tweak the policy for roofs and they can do their part to save the world.

Direct action minimal cost, simple and effective and no unmandated taxes.....

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #8 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 2:35pm

If Tony's direct action plan is to paint roofs white, which will require a large labour force subsidised by the government, I know just the people to ask..... the guys who did the pink batts scheme have been waiting for another goldern opportunity like this!

My question to Tony is though, how will we make China and the US paint their roofs white ? Australia's roof coverage is only 3% of world roof coverage, and therefore wont make much impact on our own.

Also, the question seems to be that the white-roof policy will only temporarily stop global warming, with co2 polution catching up to the reflective effect of white roofs within a decade or two. What then ?

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freediver

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #9 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 2:37pm

Quote:

What is dubious about the science and the cost is bugga all?

You have no clue at all what it would cost. Most roofs these days are either already light coloured metallic (think factory roofs) or unpainted tiles.

And recolouring our roads? Think about what that would do to your eyes. Think about what the consequences could be....

Quote:

Direct action minimal cost, simple and effective and no unmandated taxes.....

Sure, so long as you don't have to come up with the price tag or think about the details. Just wave your arms in the air and tell everyone you have a magic bullet that costs 'bugga all'.

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John Smith

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #10 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 2:37pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:07pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

Just paint your roof white and you can stop the sky falling in....good old direct action.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/painting-roofs-white-is-...

Quote:

Painting roofs white and using light-coloured materials to surface roads and pavements would not only make cities cooler in summer, it would save the same amount of carbon as taking all the cars in the world off the roads for 50 years, a study has found. One of the simplest, yet most effective, ways of engineering the urban environment to cope with global warming is to increase the reflectivity of the cityscape so that more of the incoming sunlight is directed back into space, scientists said. City buildings in warm climates with "cool coloured" surfaces that reflect infra-red radiation would also be cooler than traditional buildings and so would conserve energy – and carbon – that would otherwise be used on air conditioning.

The Eco-Socialists won't promote this simple anti-global warming tactic because it doesn't undermine big corporates and redistribute income and wealth. Sad

Big corporates would likely make more money out of people painting their roofs..... Grin

you don't think so? how much money is currently being spent on painting roads? ... every main road would need to get repainted once a month for it to stay white ... takes money away from fixing the roads to painting them ... the pothole doesn't matter, we'll paint it white and no one will know it's there, end of pothole.

once a month?

THe standard re-painting time frame is about once every 18 months - sometime longer

No roads are re-painted on a monthly basis to my knowledge

thats because the roads currently are black ... have you ever seen a white road?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white Reply #11 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 2:38pm It's not Abbott's plan it's just a suggestion based upon the link Doc. A simple way of off-setting the effect of global warming. Mind you it might off-set it too much and we'll be ice-scating on Sydney harbour on new year's eve....
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John Smith

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #12 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 2:45pm

Swagman wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 2:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:07pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

Just paint your roof white and you can stop the sky falling in....good old direct action.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/painting-roofs-white-is-...

Quote:

Painting roofs white and using light-coloured materials to surface roads and pavements would not only make cities cooler in summer, it would save the same amount of carbon as taking all the cars in the world off the roads for 50 years, a study has found. One of the simplest, yet most effective, ways of engineering the urban environment to cope with global warming is to increase the reflectivity of the cityscape so that more of the incoming sunlight is directed back into space, scientists said. City buildings in warm climates with "cool coloured" surfaces that reflect infra-red radiation would also be cooler than traditional buildings and so would conserve energy – and carbon – that would otherwise be used on air conditioning.

The Eco-Socialists won't promote this simple anti-global warming tactic because it doesn't undermine big corporates and redistribute income and wealth. Sad

Big corporates would likely make more money out of people painting their roofs..... Grin

you don't think so? how much money is currently being spent on painting roads? ... every main road would need to get repainted once a month for it to stay white ... takes money away from fixing the roads to painting them ... the pothole doesn't matter, we'll paint it white and no one will know it's there, end of pothole.

If you read the link it recommends colouring the roads etc when it's resurfaced not as a special matter.

What about roofs? Might look a bit bland but there's no reason why white shouldn't be the staple colour to save the world?

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 1:49pm:

And just like Tony Abbott's "direct action" appeal to the common man who has no clue about economics, it costs a lot more and is based on far more dubious science than the global warming he rejected until very recently.

What is dubious about the science and the cost is bugga all?

A roof paint over costs a couple of grand at the most. Most roofs eventually need a re-coat. When re-coated paint them white. White is the base colour for most paints anyway. Some councils already have local plans where colourbond fences etc have to be one colour for trendy asthetics, tweak the policy for roofs and they can do their part to save the world.

Direct action minimal cost, simple and effective and no unmandated taxes.....

your kidding aren't you? the air (in the cities) is full of dust particles from exhaust sytems and general pollution, any white roof would need to be recoated every few years ... as for roads, much more often because of the rubber on the roads . for this hair brained scheme to have a hope of working they would have to remain pure white ....

yes roofs eventually need a re coat every ten years ... but only if they are NOT white and they have been painted previously ... concrete roof tiles and colorbond roofs can go 25 yrs before needing paint, glazed tiles much much longer. Paint it white and it'll start to look sh1t house after 3 or 4 yrs at most.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #13 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 3:04pm

Swagman wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 2:38pm:

It's not Abbott's plan it's just a suggestion based upon the link Doc.

A simple way of off-setting the effect of global warming. Mind you it might off-set it too much and we'll be ice-scating on Sydney harbour on new year's eve.... Sad

You've confirmed to me that you are an idiot if you believe this mumbo jumbo is possible.

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Swagman

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Re: Stuff the carbon tax...paint your roof white
Reply #14 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 3:24pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

thats because the roads currently are black ... have you ever seen a white road

The thread is about painting roofs not roads but yeah one thing I remember about my town of origin, Lithgow, is that they had a white road (concrete) as opposed to bitumen, and lots of coal dust and soot in the air.....but the road stayed white.

Doctor Jolly wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 3:04pm:

You've confirmed to me that you are an idiot if you believe this mumbo jumbo is possible.

Really, are you denying that white is more efficient in reflecting heat than other colours? Why are solar panels black Doc?

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Sure, so long as you don't have to come up with the price tag or think about the details. Just wave your arms in the air and tell everyone you have a magic bullet that costs 'bugga all'.

Well FD the cost is bugga-all if its just about choosing a colour when roofs are first constructed or when they are replaced. It's not about ripping roofs up and replacing them just to change the colour.

As the linked article SAYS........

Quote:

The researchers believe that it would be cheap and easy to increase the albedo of cities by applying the reflective materials when roofs and roads are routinely resurfaced, rather than doing it as a special measure.

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