Australian Politics Forum - Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51806 At my desk.	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #30 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:12pm Quote: if there had been an election mandate for the policy that would be different So now we see the absurd simple mindedness of your argument. Elections are referendums on a single issue.....
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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #31 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:12pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:02pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 5:55pm:

Quote:

garbage. godwins law is about identifying retards who have to use hitler as an argument because they lack the intellectual mettle to put a genuine argument forward. if you want to make a coherent argument as to why democracy should be subverted (which ironically is exactly what hitler did) then make one.

My argument is that democracy is not above all else and should never be seen that way.

Also, I have no respect for spineless poll following politicians or their cheerleaders.

then what IS above democracy? Ive said that God is but other than Him. exactly who or what do you suggest is above democracy

Liberty. Democracy. Humanity. Sound familiar?

Quote:

and how is that super-democratic rule imposed or decided?

Undemocratically.

pitiful,l truly pitiful. but your last sentence is very revealing. it would appear that you actively support a dictatorship. Am I correct and if not then I re-ask the original question as to what and who stands above a democracy and how its wishes are imposed.

at the moment you are looking and sounding exactly like the Hitler example you invoked previously.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #32 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:14pm

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:10pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:08pm:

Was Abbott duty bound to vote for the Malaysian solution.

to vote for a policy that was not his and which he fundamentally and morally disagreed with? no. if there had been an election mandate for the policy that would be different.

What about an EST. Was Abbott duty bound to support an EST.

when you answer my question about labors obligation to repeal a CT then I will answer yours. IM guessing you will deflect. But at elast you are not suggesting a dictatorship as FD is.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51806 At my desk.	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #33 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:14pm Quote: it would appear that you actively support a dictatorship. Perhaps you should stick to what I actually say. Quote: at the moment you are looking and sounding exactly like the Hitler example you invoked previously. Democracy gave us Hitler. It did not remove him.
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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #34 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:15pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:12pm:

Quote:

if there had been an election mandate for the policy that would be different

So now we see the absurd simple mindedness of your argument. Elections are referendums on a single issue.....

channeling SOB now I see... Well I guess it is better than channeling Hitler which your other posts would suggest.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #35 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:15pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:14pm:

Quote:

it would appear that you actively support a dictatorship.

Perhaps you should stick to what I actually say.

Quote:

at the moment you are looking and sounding exactly like the Hitler example you invoked previously.

Democracy gave us Hitler. It did not remove him.

nice attempt at a deflection. maybe instead you could tell us what stands above a democracy and how it would work in practice?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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cods

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #36 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:17pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:09pm:

Liberty. Democracy. Humanity. Sound familiar?

so do you know of any country without "democracy"..[ free elections] that also has humanity at the top of its agenda???
freedom to come and go at will...
freedom of free speech in the media..
freedom to vote

argue all you like about how hard done by you are in this country..

but until its taken away from you.... we really have no idea what democracy really is..

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51806 At my desk.	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #37 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:18pm What is your point cods? Longy: Liberty. Democracy. Humanity. Sound familiar? In practice it is messy, unlike the absurdly simple minded fantasy you have created.
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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #38 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:19pm

cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:17pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:09pm:

Liberty. Democracy. Humanity. Sound familiar?

so do you know of any country without "democracy"..[ free elections] that also has humanity at the top of its agenda???
freedom to come and go at will...
freedom of free speech in the media..
freedom to vote

argue all you like about how hard done by you are in this country..

but until its taken away from you.... we really have no idea what democracy really is..

I suspect FD supports a form of democracy not as we know it. one that involves mysterious oversight - probably my minority parties.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #39 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:20pm

Dnarever wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 5:35pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 5:05pm:

Yes, that's an important point. The legislation to abolish workchoices was voted for by the Coalition because they knew the electorate wanted it gone. Will the Labor Party and Greens do the honourable thing and vote with the Coalition to scrap the carbon dioxide tax, given what is almost certain to be an overwhelming mandate for Tony Abbott???

The legislation to abolish workchoices was voted for by the Coalition

You sure about that ????

Positive. Check if you don't believe me.

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #40 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:21pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:18pm:

What is your point cods?

Longy:

Liberty. Democracy. Humanity. Sound familiar?

In practice it is messy, unlike the absurdly simple minded fantasy you have created.

still not an answer. if democracy is not at the top of the pile of government then what is? Rule by minority parties?

how about an answer?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #41 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:23pm the right of the people to choose the government and to have their will put into practice is the democracy we all want. well all except MOTR and FD who apparently want their positions to be above the rule of the majority. who else finds that deeply disturbing?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51806 At my desk.	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #42 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:23pm Quote: still not an answer. if democracy is not at the top of the pile of government then what is? I made my views clear enough. Please stick to what I actually said.
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namnugenot

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #43 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:24pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 5:55pm:

Quote:

garbage. godwins law is about identifying retards who have to use hitler as an argument because they lack the intellectual mettle to put a genuine argument forward. if you want to make a coherent argument as to why democracy should be subverted (which ironically is exactly what hitler did) then make one.

My argument is that democracy is not above all else and should never be seen that way.

Also, I have no respect for spineless poll following politicians or their cheerleaders.

Couple of points.
"Honourable politicians" is a oxymoron in the vast majority of cases.
We don't really have real democracy now and probably never have. But we now get a little bit which is something. Although as was the case at the last election you can lie your ar$e off with every intention of doing the exact opposite and it is still apparently treated as not being a case of electoral fraud even though that is what happened.
Politicians are supposed to "represent" their constituents. If they don't then we may as well have no elections...it would save a lot of money. Politicians who listen to their electorates are doing their job. Politicians who spit on and turn your back on those who elect them get the sort of poll results the labs are now getting. And its not only a lesson for the Labour party.

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #44 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:26pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:23pm:

Quote:

still not an answer. if democracy is not at the top of the pile of government then what is?

I made my views clear enough. Please stick to what I actually said.

your views have been anything BUT clear. when presented with the statement that democracy is the final arbiter of government you said NO. so in case I have misunderstood you can you categorically state whether or not you believe in democratic rule by the majority as the final arbiter of how government should operate? if not, what authority supersedes it?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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