Australian Politics Forum - Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?

John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #270 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 4:59pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 3:42pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 2:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 1:07pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 11:08am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:35am:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 5:28pm:

Quote:

this CT/ETS argument is a furphy. virtually nobody distinguishes between them out there in voter land

I do. So does Tony Abbott. So does every Australian who objects to Julia Gillard choosing a carbon tax despite her promise to put a price on carbon without a tax. All the people banging their heads in frustration at the inability to negotiate an international ETS are starting to realise how much simpler a tax would be. It would require no agreement between nations other than a minimum level for the local tax. There are several organisations out there promoting a carbon tax.

Quote:

claiming that labor has a mandate now for apolicy they took the opposiite of to the elction and which is rejected by a wide margin of voters

I challenge you to put a rational argument together for what the mandate of the last election outcome was, without resorting to insisting you know what voters really want. You have tried, but every step of the way you merely highlight your own hypocrisy. You laughably resorted to redefining majority to mean minority. So that you could claim a majority and thus a mandate.

If you were even remotely right in your biased thinking then Juliar's polls wouldnt be so parlous. the 2:1 majority AGAINST the CT wouldnt exists. however both are true and your love of the CT is not reflectied in the community as much as you might want it to.

Shifting the goal posts again eh Longy? A mandate is a majority which can be a minority if you agree with it. And a majority opposed to carbon pricing suddenly only becomes about a carbon tax and the politics around it, because you insist that people can't tell the difference between a tax and an ETS. Is this your way of admitting you were wrong? You seem to do an aweful lot of insisting that other people can't think for themselves and need you to make up their mind for them, all the while pretending to be about the morals of a democratic mandate.

Quote:

thats a REAL majority, not an FD faux-mjority formed by extrapolating positions on other topics and then pretneding it applies elsewhere.

You are a liar Longy. You are the only one here who says majority but means minority. You are the only one pretending to divine a single issue mandate from an election outcome.

so says the hypocrite who happily says that labor has a mandate for a ETS based on what exactly? there was no plebiscite, just a couple elections. you just sunk your own argument.

These are simple points Longy. You were wrong to claim that the majority oppose carbon pricing. You were wrong about a minority being a majority. I am happy to discuss mandates with you. I even started a new thread explaining my views on mandates and challenging yours. You ran away when it emerged that you think a minority is a majority. Obviously it is hard to have a sensible discussion about what a mandate is with someone who does not understand what a majority is and who happily makes clearly false claims about public support for carbon pricing then shifts the goal posts when he is called out on it. There is no need to restart that debate from the beginning. We can skip straight to the point where you explain in what universe a minority can be called a majority and hence a mandate.

it is a bit hard to have a coherent debate with you, you deceitful blockhead. at no point have i ever supported minority rule despite dipsticks like yourself praising Gillards MINORITY government. The hypocrisy you present at times is breath taking. even now you think people don't oppose a carbon tax. they do and there are polls to prove the point. you think people know the difference between a CT and ETS. they dont. you presume those that do know the difference actualyl care. They dont.

You are just an angry little greens supporters smarting from the knowledge that the HATED carbon tax is doomed for repeal and your pitifully inadequate party is headed for the obscurity that always afflicts minor irrelevances like the Greens.

So do you believe Howard had a mandate to introduce the GST or not?

I'm not sure why you run away from answering all the time. I'm just curious to see if you think he had a mandate or not.

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John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #271 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 5:15pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 4:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 2:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 1:07pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 11:08am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:35am:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 5:28pm:

Quote:

this CT/ETS argument is a furphy. virtually nobody distinguishes between them out there in voter land

I do. So does Tony Abbott. So does every Australian who objects to Julia Gillard choosing a carbon tax despite her promise to put a price on carbon without a tax. All the people banging their heads in frustration at the inability to negotiate an international ETS are starting to realise how much simpler a tax would be. It would require no agreement between nations other than a minimum level for the local tax. There are several organisations out there promoting a carbon tax.

Quote:

claiming that labor has a mandate now for apolicy they took the opposiite of to the elction and which is rejected by a wide margin of voters

I challenge you to put a rational argument together for what the mandate of the last election outcome was, without resorting to insisting you know what voters really want. You have tried, but every step of the way you merely highlight your own hypocrisy. You laughably resorted to redefining majority to mean minority. So that you could claim a majority and thus a mandate.

If you were even remotely right in your biased thinking then Juliar's polls wouldnt be so parlous. the 2:1 majority AGAINST the CT wouldnt exists. however both are true and your love of the CT is not reflectied in the comuntity as much as you might want it to.

Shifting the goal posts again eh Longy? A mandate is a majority which can be a minority if you agree with it. And a majority opposed to carbon pricing suddenly only becomes about a carbon tax and the politics around it, because you insist that people can't tell the difference between a tax and an ETS. Is this your way of admitting you were wrong? You seem to do an aweful lot of insisting that other people can't think for themselves and need you to make up their mind for them, all the while pretending to be about the morals of a democratic mandate.

Quote:

thats a REAL majority, not an FD faux-mjority formed by extrapolating positions on other topics and then pretneding it applies elsewhere.

You are a liar Longy. You are the only one here who says majority but means minority. You are the only one pretending to divine a single issue mandate from an election outcome.

so says the hypocrite who happily says that labor has a mandate for a ETS based on what exactly? there was no plebiscite, just a couple elections. you just sunk your own argument.

These are simple points Longy. You were wrong to claim that the majority oppose carbon pricing. You were wrong about a minority being a majority. I am happy to discuss mandates with you. I even started a new thread explaining my views on mandates and challenging yours. You ran away when it emerged that you think a minority is a majority. Obviously it is hard to have a sensible discussion about what a mandate is with someone who does not understand what a majority is and who happily makes clearly false claims about public support for carbon pricing then shifts the goal posts when he is called out on it. There is no need to restart that debate from the beginning. We can skip straight to the point where you explain in what universe a minority can be called a majority and hence a mandate.

its a bit hard to take you seriously when the ultimate test of majority opinion - a plebiscite of all voters - is not taken seriously by you. it doesnt get any more accurate than that but you reject it. And of course you do. Because ironically, the one who supports rule by the minority is YOU.

it's a bit hard to take you seriously when you run away whenever anyone asks you a question.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #272 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 2:10pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 4:59pm: