Australian Politics Forum - Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?

longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #255 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:28am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 5:01pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 4:53pm:

it is the single issue that is killing the ALP even more than usual.

Well you see that's where we differ.

I don't believe that is the one single issue most responsible for Labors position.

The one single issue that I believe has more to do with Labors position than anything else is how Gillard became PM.

Australians rightly or wrongly felt betrayed/cheated, everything else after that just added to the feelings of resentment.

If it were just a matter of the CT I believe the polls would be 49/51 alternating just about every week.

you can believe it all you like. the facts however show that the CT is massively unpoplar by a 2:1 margin. if it were ONLY the CT the ratio could be 65:35. be grateful there are other issues that keep the figure as 'close' as it is.

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John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #256 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:29am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:28am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 5:01pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 4:53pm:

it is the single issue that is killing the ALP even more than usual.

Well you see that's where we differ.

I don't believe that is the one single issue most responsible for Labors position.

The one single issue that I believe has more to do with Labors position than anything else is how Gillard became PM.

Australians rightly or wrongly felt betrayed/cheated, everything else after that just added to the feelings of resentment.

If it were just a matter of the CT I believe the polls would be 49/51 alternating just about every week.

you can believe it all you like. the facts however show that the CT is massively unpoplar by a 2:1 margin. if it were ONLY the CT the ratio could be 65:35. be grateful there are other issues that keep the figure as 'close' as it is.

you keep saying that but you've yet to show the facts ... show the facts.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #257 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:30am

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 5:19pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 4:55pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 4:53pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 1:50pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 11:14am:

And as usual,they are unwilling to accept that the carbon tax adn the ETS are unwanted by a notable majority of voters

Proof?

A notable amount of voters wanted it in 07. - Rudd elected
Not enough didn't in 10 - Tony failed

So if all your relying on for your "Notable" majority is the so called broken promise Sunrise youtube & the fact we got a hung parliament, excuse me if I doubt.

Anything more solid?

the question of the carbon tax/ETS has been polled repeatedly over the past few years. the results always show a signficant majority opposing it.

Want to link some of those results?

Don't bother if they are Murdoch daily rag online crap.

I can't seem to remember any sort of significant poll of merit producing your Notable Majority.

it was galaxy of newspoll or the like. I could research it but Im surprised that you question that the carbon tax hs been polled and found to be exceedingly unpopular and not wanted. not even labot pretends that it is popular or wanted by the majority. after all, it is the single issue that is killing the ALP even more than usual.

we 'labots' leave all the pretending to you.

The majority of Australians (and I mean a real majority, not Longy's pretend majority which can also be a minority if he agrees with them) have supported action on climate change for over a decade. Polls have consistently showed this. Federal Labor have had carbon pricing (this means either and ETS or tax) as core policy for many election cycles. Going into the 2007 election, both major parties went in with an ETS as core policy. At the time Tony Abbott was talking real economics and explaining why a price on carbon was necessary and why a carbon tax was a better option than the coalition's policy at the time (an ETS).

It is pretty absurd to claim after all that, that the majority of Australians are opposed.

except when actually polled ont he actual question of a carbon taxt they oppose it by a margin of 2:1. thats a REAL majority, not an FD faux-mjority formed by extrapolating positions on other topics and then pretneding it applies elsewhere.

Sheer intellectual dishonesty: typiclal Greens thinking.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #258 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:33am

John Smith wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:29am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:28am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 5:01pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 4:53pm:

it is the single issue that is killing the ALP even more than usual.

Well you see that's where we differ.

I don't believe that is the one single issue most responsible for Labors position.

The one single issue that I believe has more to do with Labors position than anything else is how Gillard became PM.

Australians rightly or wrongly felt betrayed/cheated, everything else after that just added to the feelings of resentment.

If it were just a matter of the CT I believe the polls would be 49/51 alternating just about every week.

you can believe it all you like. the facts however show that the CT is massively unpoplar by a 2:1 margin. if it were ONLY the CT the ratio could be 65:35. be grateful there are other issues that keep the figure as 'close' as it is.

you keep saying that but you've yet to show the facts ... show the facts.

I find it remarkable that after 2 years of high level debate and reporting on this topic a chimp like you still doesnt realise how unpopular the CT is. it is as if you are incpabale of reading and remembering articles and polls since.

But i have to remember you are the same dimwit that believes a blog entry over the Treasury figures.

you are one person who doesnt deserve facts pushed into your face. You arent really capable of accepting facts you dont like.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #259 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:35am

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 5:28pm:

Quote:

this CT/ETS argument is a furphy. virtually nobody distinguishes between them out there in voter land

I do. So does Tony Abbott. So does every Australian who objects to Julia Gillard choosing a carbon tax despite her promise to put a price on carbon without a tax. All the people banging their heads in frustration at the inability to negotiate an international ETS are starting to realise how much simpler a tax would be. It would require no agreement between nations other than a minimum level for the local tax. There are several organisations out there promoting a carbon tax.

Quote:

claiming that labor has a mandate now for apolicy they took the opposiite of to the elction and which is rejected by a wide margin of voters

I challenge you to put a rational argument together for what the mandate of the last election outcome was, without resorting to insisting you know what voters really want. You have tried, but every step of the way you merely highlight your own hypocrisy. You laughably resorted to redefining majority to mean minority. So that you could claim a majority and thus a mandate.

If you were even remotely right in your biased thinking then Juliar's polls wouldnt be so parlous. the 2:1 majority AGAINST the CT wouldnt exists. however both are true and your love of the CT is not reflectied in the comuntity as much as you might want it to.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #260 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:42am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:33am:

a chimp like you still doesnt realise how unpopular the CT

Be careful who you label Chimps.

Take a good look at those on parliament house lawn, have a good look who's driving the "Convoy of no confidence"

A chimp is an intellectual giant compared to most of your "Majority"

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #261 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 10:03am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:33am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:29am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:28am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 5:01pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 4:53pm:

it is the single issue that is killing the ALP even more than usual.

Well you see that's where we differ.

I don't believe that is the one single issue most responsible for Labors position.

The one single issue that I believe has more to do with Labors position than anything else is how Gillard became PM.

Australians rightly or wrongly felt betrayed/cheated, everything else after that just added to the feelings of resentment.

If it were just a matter of the CT I believe the polls would be 49/51 alternating just about every week.

you can believe it all you like. the facts however show that the CT is massively unpoplar by a 2:1 margin. if it were ONLY the CT the ratio could be 65:35. be grateful there are other issues that keep the figure as 'close' as it is.

you keep saying that but you've yet to show the facts ... show the facts.

I find it remarkable that after 2 years of high level debate and reporting on this topic a chimp like you still doesnt realise how unpopular the CT is. it is as if you are incpabale of reading and remembering articles and polls since.

But i have to remember you are the same dimwit that believes a blog entry over the Treasury figures.

you are one person who doesnt deserve facts pushed into your face. You arent really capable of accepting facts you dont like.

blah blah blah .. the only reason you go on and on about everything else is because you know you have no figures to support your hypothesis .... admit you made it up and shut up the bugger up

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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freediver

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #262 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 11:08am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:35am:

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 5:28pm:

Quote:

this CT/ETS argument is a furphy. virtually nobody distinguishes between them out there in voter land

I do. So does Tony Abbott. So does every Australian who objects to Julia Gillard choosing a carbon tax despite her promise to put a price on carbon without a tax. All the people banging their heads in frustration at the inability to negotiate an international ETS are starting to realise how much simpler a tax would be. It would require no agreement between nations other than a minimum level for the local tax. There are several organisations out there promoting a carbon tax.

Quote:

claiming that labor has a mandate now for apolicy they took the opposiite of to the elction and which is rejected by a wide margin of voters

I challenge you to put a rational argument together for what the mandate of the last election outcome was, without resorting to insisting you know what voters really want. You have tried, but every step of the way you merely highlight your own hypocrisy. You laughably resorted to redefining majority to mean minority. So that you could claim a majority and thus a mandate.

If you were even remotely right in your biased thinking then Juliar's polls wouldnt be so parlous. the 2:1 majority AGAINST the CT wouldnt exists. however both are true and your love of the CT is not reflectied in the comuntity as much as you might want it to.

Shifting the goal posts again eh Longy? A mandate is a majority which can be a minority if you agree with it. And a majority opposed to carbon pricing suddenly only becomes about a carbon tax and the politics around it, because you insist that people can't tell the difference between a tax and an ETS. Is this your way of admitting you were wrong? You seem to do an aweful lot of insisting that other people can't think for themselves and need you to make up their mind for them, all the while pretending to be about the morals of a democratic mandate.

Quote:

thats a REAL majority, not an FD faux-mjority formed by extrapolating positions on other topics and then pretneding it applies elsewhere.

You are a liar Longy. You are the only one here who says majority but means minority. You are the only one pretending to divine a single issue mandate from an election outcome.

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« Last Edit: Apr 10^th, 2013 at 11:17am by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #263 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 1:04pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:42am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 9:33am:

a chimp like you still doesnt realise how unpopular the CT

Be careful who you label Chimps.

Take a good look at those on parliament house lawn, have a good look who's driving the "Convoy of no confidence"

A chimp is an intellectual giant compared to most of your "Majority"

thats the funny thing about a democracy. your intelligence is not in question - just your right to vote and hold an opinion.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #264 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 1:07pm

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 11:08am: