Australian Politics Forum - Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?

John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #120 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 1:54pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 1:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am:

Kyoto.

China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together.

In short -

FAIL

So why did we sign it again?? Shocked

its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?

No, it isn't. Most people could care less about Kyoto. It is pointless.

that wasn't the case back then when he signed it ....

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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namnugenot

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #121 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 2:43pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:51am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am:

Kyoto.

China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together.

In short -

FAIL

So why did we sign it again?? Shocked

its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?

Strange, I was still on the Australian electoral roll then.
I don't recall the question "Should we sign the Kyoto Treaty?"

Maybe I was in England that day....

Now that you mention it I don't recall ant referendum

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namnugenot

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #122 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 2:44pm

namnugenot wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 2:43pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:51am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am:

Kyoto.

China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together.

In short -

FAIL

So why did we sign it again?? Shocked

its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?

Strange, I was still on the Australian electoral roll then.
I don't recall the question "Should we sign the Kyoto Treaty?"

Maybe I was in England that day....

Now that you mention it I don't recall ant referendum

....any...

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Dnarever

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #123 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 4:20pm

Maqqa wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:02am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 10:37am:

Any argument that Gillard intended to introduce a Tax at the time she said she wouldn't is ridiculous. Fact is that she was arguing weeks after the election that a fixed price was not a tax.

The whole thing is not much more than a 3 year media beat up. While it can technically be called a tax it is the most pathetic tax I have ever seen, A tax where nobody pays any tax, a tax where the tax man gets nothing.

While the commitment was technically broken it was clearly unintentional and had little or no impact.

Call it whatever you want

Call it onion flavour if that's your fancy

It smells like a tax

Well actuall that is the point it dosent?

It looks like a tax

Well actuall that is the point it dosent?

It sounds like a tax

Well actuall that is the point it dosent?

So it is a tax

Yes Techncally it can be called a tax even though in almost all ways it has nothing in common with any tax.

I think that is in fact the point it dosen't look smell feel or sound anything like any tax.

That is the reason that it took literally months before anyone could point out the reason why technically it can be called a tax and that the vast majority still don't understand the reason.

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« Last Edit: Apr 1^st, 2013 at 4:45pm by Dnarever »

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Dnarever

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #124 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 4:22pm

namnugenot wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 2:44pm:

namnugenot wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 2:43pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:51am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am:

Kyoto.

China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together.

In short -

FAIL

So why did we sign it again?? Shocked

its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?

Strange, I was still on the Australian electoral roll then.
I don't recall the question "Should we sign the Kyoto Treaty?"

Maybe I was in England that day....

Now that you mention it I don't recall ant referendum

....any...

Wasn't the ant referendum held in conjunction with the GST referendum???

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Aussie

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #125 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 4:30pm

Mr. Smith is right:

Quote:

this is Gumpy's little brainstorm re carbon tax .. the Kyoto agreement ... if Abbot stands by his beliefs he can pull out of Kyoto, we wouldn't be the first country to do so ... no one can make him pay the penalties .... Abbotts problem is that he wants it both ways

Australia can denunciate any time it wishes, if it wishes. Canada has.

Wink

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Peter Freedman

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #126 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:35pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:29pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:44pm:

If you follow longweekend's "logic" Opposition parties should vote for all Government policies.

In fact, Opposition MPs shouldn't bother turning up to Parliament all, just take three years' paid holiday.

another leftie who unsurprisingly has little concept of or respect for the democratic process. the question at hand is 'should labor repeal the CT if the substantial majority of australians want them to and it is expressed at an election'?

care to give us your opinion?

Wow, you do a great line in sweeping generalisations! All "lefties" think alike, walk alike, even look alike, right?

Saves you from having to think logically, which is good, because you suck at it.

I would be happy to give my opinion. Here it is.

So long as Labor goes into the election promising to retain the carbon tax, then it should remain faithful to its voters and vote against repeal.

If there is anything of this opinion you find hard to understand, just let me know and I'll try to help you out.

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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #127 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:10pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:29pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:44pm:

If you follow longweekend's "logic" Opposition parties should vote for all Government policies.

In fact, Opposition MPs shouldn't bother turning up to Parliament all, just take three years' paid holiday.

another leftie who unsurprisingly has little concept of or respect for the democratic process. the question at hand is 'should labor repeal the CT if the substantial majority of australians want them to and it is expressed at an election'?

care to give us your opinion?

Wow, you do a great line in sweeping generalisations! All "lefties" think alike, walk alike, even look alike, right?

Saves you from having to think logically, which is good, because you suck at it.

I would be happy to give my opinion. Here it is.

So long as Labor goes into the election promising to retain the carbon tax, then it should remain faithful to its voters and vote against repeal.

If there is anything of this opinion you find hard to understand, just let me know and I'll try to help you out.

Then they will lose the election

Then they will be forced to go to a DD

At this DD - those Labor and Greens MPs who are still licking their wounds will be politically chased out of town for good

So how many Labor and Greens MPs will do this after taking a huge defeat?

That remains to be seen.

Logic says they will roll over

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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progressiveslol

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #128 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:16pm

Maqqa wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:10pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:29pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:44pm:

If you follow longweekend's "logic" Opposition parties should vote for all Government policies.

In fact, Opposition MPs shouldn't bother turning up to Parliament all, just take three years' paid holiday.

another leftie who unsurprisingly has little concept of or respect for the democratic process. the question at hand is 'should labor repeal the CT if the substantial majority of australians want them to and it is expressed at an election'?

care to give us your opinion?

Wow, you do a great line in sweeping generalisations! All "lefties" think alike, walk alike, even look alike, right?

Saves you from having to think logically, which is good, because you suck at it.

I would be happy to give my opinion. Here it is.

So long as Labor goes into the election promising to retain the carbon tax, then it should remain faithful to its voters and vote against repeal.

If there is anything of this opinion you find hard to understand, just let me know and I'll try to help you out.

Then they will lose the election

Then they will be forced to go to a DD

At this DD - those Labor and Greens MPs who are still licking their wounds will be politically chased out of town for good

So how many Labor and Greens MPs will do this after taking a huge defeat?

That remains to be seen.

Logic says they will roll over

Come on maqqa. Theres no way the people will still have deep hatred for labor by then. I mean, who remembers that carbon tax thing from 3 years ago.............. no-one. Not a single person.

Grin

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Maqqa

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #129 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:21pm

Dnarever wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 4:20pm:

Maqqa wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:02am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 10:37am:

Any argument that Gillard intended to introduce a Tax at the time she said she wouldn't is ridiculous. Fact is that she was arguing weeks after the election that a fixed price was not a tax.

The whole thing is not much more than a 3 year media beat up. While it can technically be called a tax it is the most pathetic tax I have ever seen, A tax where nobody pays any tax, a tax where the tax man gets nothing.

While the commitment was technically broken it was clearly unintentional and had little or no impact.

Call it whatever you want

Call it onion flavour if that's your fancy

It smells like a tax

Well actuall that is the point it dosent?

It looks like a tax

Well actuall that is the point it dosent?

It sounds like a tax

Well actuall that is the point it dosent?

So it is a tax

Yes Techncally it can be called a tax even though in almost all ways it has nothing in common with any tax.

I think that is in fact the point it dosen't look smell feel or sound anything like any tax.

That is the reason that it took literally months before anyone could point out the reason why technically it can be called a tax and that the vast majority still don't understand the reason.

Lets look at the fact that Gillard refuse to call it a tax

Lets look at the definition of a TAX

Quote:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tax
a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits, or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions:

higher taxes will dampen consumer spending

Idiots from the left will try to divert attention by saying that the money won't go to the state

The key issue here is a tax is defined as a compulsory contribution to state revenue

This pricing of carbon is compulsory to the top 500 companies and the revenue collected goes to state revenue

So it looks like a tax, smells like a tax and works like a tax then it is a tax

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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perceptions_now

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #130 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:40pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:55pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:51pm:

So, IF the Carbon Tax is repealed, what existing tax or taxes will be raised &/or what new tax will be introduced, to offset the Revenue raised by the Carbon Tax?

not the question. the question is one of PRINCIPLE.

Is that like, "trust me. I'm a Politician"

Actually, it's more like -

C

redible

R

eliable

A

bundant

P

aradoxes

Politicians, virtually all of them, have no interest in principles, they are only into their own short term advantages!

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perceptions_now

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #131 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:46pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:12pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:51pm:

So, IF the Carbon Tax is repealed, what existing tax or taxes will be raised &/or what new tax will be introduced, to offset the Revenue raised by the Carbon Tax?

What for?

No carbon tax - no need for the other initiatives

The carbon tax was supposed to lower global temperature

Rubbish, it is a tax!
A net earner, for government Revenue!!
And, as such, IF it is repealed then Revenue will Decline, which in the current Economic climate means that it must be replaced with higher rates on existing other Taxes & another new tax will be introduced!!!

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Maqqa

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #132 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:48pm

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:46pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:12pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:51pm:

So, IF the Carbon Tax is repealed, what existing tax or taxes will be raised &/or what new tax will be introduced, to offset the Revenue raised by the Carbon Tax?

What for?

No carbon tax - no need for the other initiatives

The carbon tax was supposed to lower global temperature

Rubbish, it is a tax!
A net earner, for government Revenue!!
And, as such, IF it is repealed then Revenue will Decline, which in the current Economic climate means that it must be replaced with higher rates on existing other Taxes & another new tax will be introduced!!!

Why?

We didn't need it in 2007 when GDP was lower and still have a surplus

Now that GDP is higher - we've had 5 record deficits

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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progressiveslol

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #133 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:51pm

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:46pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:12pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:51pm:

So, IF the Carbon Tax is repealed, what existing tax or taxes will be raised &/or what new tax will be introduced, to offset the Revenue raised by the Carbon Tax?

What for?

No carbon tax - no need for the other initiatives

The carbon tax was supposed to lower global temperature

Rubbish, it is a tax!
A net earner, for government Revenue!!
And, as such, IF it is repealed then Revenue will Decline, which in the current Economic climate means that it must be replaced with higher rates on existing other Taxes & another new tax will be introduced!!!

The carbon tax is not a net earner. You will have penalties and donations on top of what has already been given back as an incentive.

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Dnarever

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #134 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 8:24am

Maqqa wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:21pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 4:20pm:

Maqqa wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:02am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 10:37am:

Any argument that Gillard intended to introduce a Tax at the time she said she wouldn't is ridiculous. Fact is that she was arguing weeks after the election that a fixed price was not a tax.

The whole thing is not much more than a 3 year media beat up. While it can technically be called a tax it is the most pathetic tax I have ever seen, A tax where nobody pays any tax, a tax where the tax man gets nothing.

While the commitment was technically broken it was clearly unintentional and had little or no impact.

Call it whatever you want

Call it onion flavour if that's your fancy

It smells like a tax

Well actuall that is the point it dosent?

It looks like a tax

Well actuall that is the point it dosent?

It sounds like a tax

Well actuall that is the point it dosent?

So it is a tax

Yes Techncally it can be called a tax even though in almost all ways it has nothing in common with any tax.

I think that is in fact the point it dosen't look smell feel or sound anything like any tax.

That is the reason that it took literally months before anyone could point out the reason why technically it can be called a tax and that the vast majority still don't understand the reason.

Lets look at the fact that Gillard refuse to call it a tax

Lets look at the definition of a TAX

Quote:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tax
a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits, or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions:

higher taxes will dampen consumer spending

Idiots from the left will try to divert attention by saying that the money won't go to the state

The key issue here is a tax is defined as a compulsory contribution to state revenue

This pricing of carbon is compulsory to the top 500 companies and the revenue collected goes to state revenue

So it looks like a tax, smells like a tax and works like a tax then it is a tax

the money won't go to the state

Well right no it wont??? but then you say that it does - collected goes to state revenue Well no it doesn't as you infered previously. The money is audited through that process but ultimatly goes to an independant authority or returned in compensation.

This pricing of carbon is compulsory to the top 500 200 companies and the revenue collected goes to state revenue

The 200 companies buy the equivilant to carbon credits which have a value owned by the company. The money collected is either returned in compensation or passed to a statutory authority to be used on low carbon inititives etc. Nothing ends up in the consolidated revinue pool or is kept by government.

The key issue here is a tax is defined as a compulsory contribution to state revenue

The process of buying something with value is different from a tax.

The zero involvment from the ATO is typically different from a tax.

A statutory authority allocating the spend is different from a tax.

100% give back (most cases) in compensation is different from a tax.

As Macca points out the only reason it can be labled a tax is because technically it is the government who collects the money in the first instance and not because it acts like a tax in any way.

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