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Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet? (Read 766 times)
Innocent bystander
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Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Mar 27th, 2013 at 1:24am
 
Supposed ill effects of more CO2 are from flawed computer models in which water vapour and clouds multiply the modest direct warming by factors of up to 10

Did the world have just the right concentration of carbon dioxide at the pre-industrial level of 270 parts per million? Reading breathless media reports about CO2 "pollution" and about minimising our "carbon footprints", one might think that the earth cannot have too little CO2. Humans and most other animals would do fine in a world with no atmospheric CO2 - but most plants stop growing if CO2 levels drop much below 150 ppm, so we would starve to death without at least this minimal amount. We are probably better off with our current 390 ppm than with the preindustrial 270 ppm, and we would be better off with still more CO2. For example, there is evidence that California orange groves are about 30 percent more productive today than they were 150 years ago because of the increase of atmospheric CO2.

What atmospheric levels of CO2 would be a direct threat to health? Both the United States Navy and NASA have performed extensive studies of human tolerance to CO2. As a result of these studies, the navy recommends an upper limit of about 8,000 ppm for cruises of 90 days and NASA recommends an upper limit of 5,000 ppm for missions of 1,000 days. We conclude that atmospheric CO2 levels should be above about 150 ppm to avoid harming green plants and below about 5,000 ppm to avoid harming people.

That is a big range, and our atmosphere is much closer to the lower end than the upper end. We were not that far from CO2 anorexia when massive burning of fossil fuels began. At the current rate of burning fossil fuels, we are adding about 2 ppm of CO2 per year to the atmosphere, so getting from our current level of about 390 ppm to 1,000 ppm would take about 300 years—and 1,000 ppm is still less than most plants would prefer, and much less than either the NASA or the navy limit.

Yet there are strident calls to immediately stop further increases in CO2 levels and reduce levels back to the 270 ppm pre-industrial value that was supposedly "the best of all possible worlds". The first reason for limiting CO2 was to fight global warming. Since the predicted warming has failed to be nearly as large as computer models forecasts, the reason was amended to stopping climate change. Sancta simplicitas. Climate change itself has been embarrassingly uneventful, so another rationale for reducing CO2 is now promoted: to stop the supposed increase of extreme climate events like droughts, hurricanes or tornados.

But dispassionate data show that the frequency of extreme events has hardly changed and in some cases has decreased in the 150 years that CO2 levels have increased from 270 ppm to 390 ppm. Other things being equal, doubling the current CO2 level in the atmosphere will increase the surface temperature by about 1 C. This modest warming, together with documented benefits to plant life, would be an overall benefit. The supposed ill effects of more CO2 are from computer models in which water vapour and clouds multiply the modest direct warming by factors of three, four even 10. Observations show no evidence for these large ``positive feedbacks."

In the preface to the first edition of his Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, Charles Mackay wrote: "The object of the author in the following pages has been to collect the most remarkable instances of those moral epidemics which have been excited, sometimes by one cause and sometimes by another, and to show how easily the masses have been led astray, and how imitative and gregarious men are, even in their infatuations and crimes." The contemporary crusade to demonize CO2 has much in common with the medieval crusades Mackay describes - with true believers, opportunists, cynics, money-hungry governments, manipulators of various types and even children's' crusades. The world has more important, real problems to tend to.

William Happer is professor of physics at Princeton University, in the US, and the author of The Truth About Greenhouse Gases – published by the Global Warming Policy Foundation

Read more: http://www.publicserviceeurope.com/article/751/will-increased-carbon-dioxide-levels-actually-benefit-planet#ixzz2OexyNsXk
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newtown_grafitti
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Re: Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Reply #1 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 12:13pm
 
No.

Increasing CO
2
levels will neither benefit nor harm the planet. The planet will adjust to whatever the level turns out to be.

It's a different story though for some live inhabitants of the planet. Shellfish are at risk as CO
2
concentration in water increases, making it more acidic. Effects on vegetation vary but in general, most green vegetation will benefit from higher concentration. However protein content in cereal crops diminishes, rendering them less nutritious.

Increases in concentration of the size anticipated from human activity will have little effect on animals.

Increasing global temperature as a consequence of increasing CO
2
concentration willl however have a large and mainly detrimental effect on life forms. Some may be able to respond by moving to higher altitudes or to cooler latitudes but the unusual (perhaps unprecedented) speed with which the climate is changing largely rules out evolutionary adaptation of life forms as a response.

A further complication hampering adaptation is the increasing variability of weather. We see this currently where England reportedly had its coldest Easter day since 1881 while Kittila, in Finish Lapland above the Arctic Circle, was actually warmer than London.

As a footnote, William Happer is a physicist, but as he admitted at a US Senate committee meeting, he is not a climatologist.
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Dnarever
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Re: Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Reply #2 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 1:17pm
 
Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?

It may benifit the planet but unfortunatly about a third of the worlds population probably would not survive.
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miketrees
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Re: Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Reply #3 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 1:27pm
 
The planet will be quite indifferent.

Some of its inhabitants will benefit, some will suffer, but the planet wont give a poo
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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Reply #4 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 6:14pm
 
What increase in CO2 level are you proposing the planet endures?
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Re: Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Reply #5 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 10:47pm
 
co2 will benefit the world by fertilising the planet for greater plant growth. Possibly more presipitation, which would also benefit plants.

At worst, some people will have to relocate, but the earths vegetation  would thrive, allowing us and animals to thrive.
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Innocent bystander
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Re: Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Reply #6 - Apr 2nd, 2013 at 9:45am
 
I think we dodged a bullet there, co2 was at historically low levels, 150 ppm being a death sentence for the planet, thankfully they are heading up again to more realistic levels.
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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Reply #7 - Apr 2nd, 2013 at 10:02am
 
Innocent bystander wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 9:45am:
I think we dodged a bullet there, co2 was at historically low levels, 150 ppm being a death sentence for the planet, thankfully they are heading up again to more realistic levels.

How is your intense Andrew Bolt scholarship going these days?
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Doctor Jolly
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Re: Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Reply #8 - Apr 2nd, 2013 at 12:45pm
 
No sort of geo-engineering, including what we are doing right now by inadvertantly releasing vast amounts of co2 into the atmosphere, is ever going to end well.
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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Reply #9 - Apr 2nd, 2013 at 1:21pm
 
Doctor Jolly wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 12:45pm:
No sort of geo-engineering, including what we are doing right now by inadvertantly releasing vast amounts of co2 into the atmosphere, is ever going to end well.


You do realise that your statement totally contravenes the supreme stance that Mr Andrew Bolt and Lord Monckton are taking on this matter?

The worlds most sublime intellectual Mr Bolt will take issue with you on your ridiculous claim
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progressiveslol
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Re: Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Reply #10 - Apr 2nd, 2013 at 1:45pm
 
Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 10:02am:
Innocent bystander wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 9:45am:
I think we dodged a bullet there, co2 was at historically low levels, 150 ppm being a death sentence for the planet, thankfully they are heading up again to more realistic levels.

How is your intense Andrew Bolt scholarship going these days?

Oh man you dig deep with that one.

May I be the first to tell you you sound like a complete FWit when you say it because no-one takes their climate science from bolt. You seem to have an unhealthy affliction with him
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Re: Will increased co2 levels benefit the planet?
Reply #11 - Apr 2nd, 2013 at 1:53pm
 
ALAN: What do you make of this one? I have an article here from the Global Warming Policy Foundation - if anyone should know about so-called "global warming", it's them. Professor by the name of Happer. He's saying increased CO2 levels - increased CO2 levels - are actually quite good for the planet. What do you think, Mario?

MARIO: Sounds scientific, Alan. You've been saying that all along. It just proves you right.

ALAN: This isn't about anyone being right or wrong, it's the science. We have to listen to the scientists on this one. I've said that all along. Let's ust calm down and look at the facts. This Happer, he's saying they're producing 30 percent more oranges in California because of increased carbon dioxide. It's truly extraordinary. We have the Greens on the one hand trying to cut CO2 - trying to cut it - and here we have agriculture booming in California. It just goes to show how anti-business these Greens really are. If it was up to that lot, we'd be back in the caves, starving.

MARIO: Right. You've got to look at the eco-system as a whole, Alan. You know, more fossil fuel consumption equals more oranges on the trees. It's a scientific formula. This bloke's got his head screwed on alright...

ALAN: Well, I've interviewed a few scientists on this program with their heads screwed on. We had Lord Moncton only last week. But here's the rub: if you take the 30 percent figure and apply it across the board, we're looking at 30 percent more trees, 30 percent more fish in the ocean, 30 percent more beef cattle, more of everything to go round. That's what this is about, increasing productivity. I mean, they say there's a food crisis around the corner - here's the way to solve it.

MARIO: I agree, Alan. It would lower my food costs, that's for sure.

ALAN: And that gets passed on to the consumer.

MARIO: No, that - er, that's right, Alan. In the end, it means cheaper prices for the customer.

ALAN: (Laughing) Any oranges on the menu this week, Mario?

MARIO: There's always orange juice. Alan. Fanta, Solo, lemonade...

ALAN: I'm thirsty already. That's Lavenders. Check the website for details. 

AD BREAK.

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