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Re: Anarchism
Reply #135 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 12:18pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 10:35am:

FD wrote on Apr 5^th, 2013 at 3:03pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 5^th, 2013 at 9:43am:

There's a reason why I spend most of my time here criticising academics and not Murdoch and TT etc. Academics are meant to be the bastion of truth and inquiry. Yet, I've lost count at the amount of times I've seen dishonesty from them. Journalists are trash: Fact. I expect nothing more than sensationalist garbage coming out of their mouths. Academics, on the other hand, are supposed to enlighten, yet they are just as manipulative.

Which academics, Mistie, have actually been caught out lying?

I used the word "manipulation", not lying (which came from your previous post).

Although I don't doubt some lie.

Stephen Jay Gould and was caught straight out lying and Margaret Meads work was found to be a big hoax. Together they form part of the foundation of todays egalitotalitarianism. But who cares if it's built on a foundation of poo - so long as it's "nice" eh?

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« Last Edit: Apr 6^th, 2013 at 12:40pm by ... »

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Grey

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Re: Anarchism
Reply #136 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 12:26pm

Quote:

Karnal - Mistie’s already addressed this one, Grey. He takes the post-structuralist view that truth is relative, and determined by epistemes of power and knowledge, a rhizome of competing discourses, genres, sign systems and cultural practices, all competing for the phallocentric symbolic order known as truth.

Mistie, you see, works at a uni.

Hahahahahaha Kiss

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Grey

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Re: Anarchism
Reply #137 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 12:40pm

... wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

Margaret Mead was caught straight out lying, and her "work" forms part of the foundation of today's egalitotalitarianism. Same deal with Stephen jay Gould.

Evidence? In anycase if an academic is proven to be lying, that work doesn't form part of the foundation of anything. 'Egalitotalitarianism' dear me Grin

"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Meade

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Anarchism Reply #138 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 12:46pm The Mismeasures of Stephen Jay Gould
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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Anarchism Reply #139 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 12:49pm oh you retracted by edit already. - I'm not familiar with Gould but reports of MM being hoaxed appear greatly exaggerated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mead
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Anarchism
Reply #140 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 1:15pm

FD wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 10:58am:

You do realize academics have a process of peer-review, right?

Which published articles have been "manipulated", Mistie?

Please post one and we’ll compare it to a good Today Tonight story.

One that I wanted to put up won't allow me because it's locked behind a paywall.
But I'll cut and paste sections of it.

From: Everton-Moore, Kimberley. Anna's Story: Law's Response to Domestic Violence. Griffith Law Review, Vol. 15, No. 1, 2006: 196-226.

Here's the abstract:
Quote:

ANNA’S STORY
Law’s Response to Domestic Violence

Kimberley Everton-Moore*

Domestic violence is a very real problem for contemporary
Australia. The physical, psychological and economic
ramifications of domestic abuse are far-reaching and alarming.
The role the legal system has played, currently plays and
perhaps should play in this multifaceted problem is the central
theme of this article. The author uses the narrative of Anna, a
fictional character who suffers abuse at the hands of her
husband, Chris. It discusses the social-psychological and
sociocultural literature on domestic violence and outlines the civil
and criminal law applicable to Anna in Queensland. This is done
in an attempt to provide a framework for a critique of the law’s
response to Anna’s story, and to convince the reader that the law
must overcome its patriarchal past and acknowledge its
fundamental role in the fight against domestic violence.

A fictional story that then uses "literature" to convince (re-manipulate) the reader to overcome the "patriarchal past".

It was obviously "peer-reviewed" by militant feminists.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Anarchism
Reply #141 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 1:24pm

Here's another one. It uses a "telephone survey" to justify its data.

Intimate partner abuse of women in a Central Queensland mining region

Heather Nancarrow, Stewart Lockie and Sanjay Sharma

http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/D/1/2/%7BD12B0A42-F6E4-490A-A8CE-DB57037BBE76%7D...

At least it was an attempt at an empirical study, rather than justifying it through "literature". But, if telephone surveys can be used by academics to justify their data and positions, can Today Tonight and A Current Affair also use their telephone surveys as legitimate data? Grin

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FD

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Re: Anarchism
Reply #142 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 2:39pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

FD wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 10:58am:

You do realize academics have a process of peer-review, right?

Which published articles have been "manipulated", Mistie?

Please post one and we’ll compare it to a good Today Tonight story.

One that I wanted to put up won't allow me because it's locked behind a paywall.
But I'll cut and paste sections of it.

From: Everton-Moore, Kimberley. Anna's Story: Law's Response to Domestic Violence. Griffith Law Review, Vol. 15, No. 1, 2006: 196-226.

Here's the abstract:
Quote:

ANNA’S STORY
Law’s Response to Domestic Violence

Kimberley Everton-Moore*

Domestic violence is a very real problem for contemporary
Australia. The physical, psychological and economic
ramifications of domestic abuse are far-reaching and alarming.
The role the legal system has played, currently plays and
perhaps should play in this multifaceted problem is the central
theme of this article. The author uses the narrative of Anna, a
fictional character who suffers abuse at the hands of her
husband, Chris. It discusses the social-psychological and
sociocultural literature on domestic violence and outlines the civil
and criminal law applicable to Anna in Queensland. This is done
in an attempt to provide a framework for a critique of the law’s
response to Anna’s story, and to convince the reader that the law
must overcome its patriarchal past and acknowledge its
fundamental role in the fight against domestic violence.

A fictional story that then uses "literature" to convince (re-manipulate) the reader to overcome the "patriarchal past".

It was obviously "peer-reviewed" by militant feminists.

Good source - excellent point. There’s a touch of the Today Tonight "re-enactment" in this.

But why did they use a fictional person rather than a real one? There’s nothing wrong with using case studies. Surely it would be easy to find a real victim of domestic violence.

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FD

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Re: Anarchism
Reply #143 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 2:46pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 1:24pm:

Here's another one. It uses a "telephone survey" to justify its data.

Intimate partner abuse of women in a Central Queensland mining region

Heather Nancarrow, Stewart Lockie and Sanjay Sharma

http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/D/1/2/%7BD12B0A42-F6E4-490A-A8CE-DB57037BBE76%7D...

At least it was an attempt at an empirical study, rather than justifying it through "literature". But, if telephone surveys can be used by academics to justify their data and positions, can Today Tonight and A Current Affair also use their telephone surveys as legitimate data? Grin

Of course. We rely on telephone surveys all the time. How do you think we get reliable political polling?

Today Tonight’s audience, however, is not a cross section of the population. If you show an audience a story and ask them to call in and give one of two responses, what do you expect?

I know you’re not trying to justify the polls of television current affairs, Mistie. That would be going too far, even for you.

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Grey

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Re: Anarchism
Reply #144 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 5:02pm

FD wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

FD wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 10:58am:

You do realize academics have a process of peer-review, right?

Which published articles have been "manipulated", Mistie?

Please post one and we’ll compare it to a good Today Tonight story.

One that I wanted to put up won't allow me because it's locked behind a paywall.
But I'll cut and paste sections of it.

From: Everton-Moore, Kimberley. Anna's Story: Law's Response to Domestic Violence. Griffith Law Review, Vol. 15, No. 1, 2006: 196-226.

Here's the abstract:
Quote:

ANNA’S STORY
Law’s Response to Domestic Violence

Kimberley Everton-Moore*

Domestic violence is a very real problem for contemporary
Australia. The physical, psychological and economic
ramifications of domestic abuse are far-reaching and alarming.
The role the legal system has played, currently plays and
perhaps should play in this multifaceted problem is the central
theme of this article. The author uses the narrative of Anna, a
fictional character who suffers abuse at the hands of her
husband, Chris. It discusses the social-psychological and
sociocultural literature on domestic violence and outlines the civil
and criminal law applicable to Anna in Queensland. This is done
in an attempt to provide a framework for a critique of the law’s
response to Anna’s story, and to convince the reader that the law
must overcome its patriarchal past and acknowledge its
fundamental role in the fight against domestic violence.

A fictional story that then uses "literature" to convince (re-manipulate) the reader to overcome the "patriarchal past".

It was obviously "peer-reviewed" by militant feminists.

Good source - excellent point. There’s a touch of the Today Tonight "re-enactment" in this.

But why did they use a fictional person rather than a real one? There’s nothing wrong with using case studies. Surely it would be easy to find a real victim of domestic violence.

I wonder if it's referenced? The obvious reason for using a hypothetical would be to illustrate different aspects of the way the law works in a concise manner.

I don't have a problem with that, as long as the scenarios are true to life and, preferably, drawn from actual cases and amalgamated. A bit different from tabloid journalism will plucks statstics and scenarios out of the ether.

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FD Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 100058	Re: Anarchism Reply #145 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 6:47pm Perhaps the ethics committee wouldn’t let them use a real person. You have to admit, Grey, creating a "fictionalised" case study to "frame a critique" and "convince the reader that the law must overcome its patriarchal past" is dodgy. This is Today Tonight at its best.
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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Anarchism Reply #146 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 6:51pm Yes I admit it's dodgy, you have to draw a line somewhere
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FD Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 100058	Re: Anarchism Reply #147 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 7:17pm You do. You’re supposed to make the polemic fit the facts, not the other way around. Alan would be proud. Mistie is vindicated. Good work, MM. Excellent research.
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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Anarchism Reply #148 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 2:39pm
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Anarchism Reply #149 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 10:37pm Cleaving to a 19th century idea (anarchism) in the 21st century is really a conservative, not to say reactionary, state of mind.
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