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Anarchism (Read 39656 times)
FD
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #120 - Apr 5th, 2013 at 3:15pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 5th, 2013 at 9:25am:
What if the community decides to stop non-Western immigration? What if they decide to sack most public servants?


The community? The two main parties support the UNHCR and multiculturalism. Both parties abandoned the White Australia policy. The community is free to vote in the White Australia Party, but you know how likely this is to happen.

I believe the Liberal/National government in Queensland have started on your second point. As far as I can tell, it's not a very popular policy at all.

As a devoted public servant myself, I can assure you: I have no problem with the governments clearing out the dead wood. I never join the PSA union marches.

But when you sack, teachers, nurses and cops, the community do tend to get a little shirty. As most of your "non-Western" immigration is designed to fill such positions, they wouldn't be too happy with the lack of doctors and nurses either.
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Grey
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #121 - Apr 5th, 2013 at 4:36pm
 
What me - a catastrophizer?  Grin

The underlying cause of the GFC is the simple fact nobody knows where the money ends up when the security package pass the parcel unravels. We don't have a financial system we have a shambles.

We've used up the Earths resources at a catastrophic rate and the only solution the players have is more growth. It's not only oil, I can't buy the NPK fertilizer I used last year and the new government regulated formula to cut down on phosphate doesn't work.

Australia has the highest rate of desertification in the world.

We used to laugh at oil sheiks buying rolls royces to decorate the desert instead of developing their countries and now we do the same thing. All this and more, you know it's happening. We're on the brink of catastrophe. I'd like to avert it.

Quote:
The Socialist Alternative and Anarcho-Sydicalists are hardly overflowing with members themselves. The ideology of capitalism is individualism, and this has been thoroughly internalized. People, it seems, would prefer to focus on themselves.


Anarcho -syndicalists, capitalists, communists and any other anarcho-gang miss the point. Anarchy is the holistic approach.

Capitalist ideology? This is what makes me amused. Capitalism isn't an ideology. There never was a group of capitalists who sat down and dreamed up a system to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Capitalism has been an organic process.

I have what I call the catalytic theory of change. A catalyst is introduced that changes everything. The wheel, the domestic horse, the London sewerage system, the birth control pill and the catalyst for Capitalism, the stock market, birth place Holland 1602. A very good idea at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies_Company

That's what we need right now, a catalyst. The best I can think of is to take de-mock-race out of the hands of gangs.
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #122 - Apr 5th, 2013 at 5:23pm
 
Grey, ideology is the most organic process of all. People DID sit down and dream up capitalism - including 16th century Dutch East India Company execs and the emerging French bourgeousie - but no one is responsible for ideology. Ideology is the result of people’s interests. These, like dreams, are always changing. The economy is always changing.

I agree completely with the rest of your post. Capitalism has given us environmental devastation. Consumerism has given us anti-depressants. Liberal demokracy (the perverted spelling is deliberate) has given us business as usual. Getting rid of the King and popularly electing a president has given the world the same oligarchical decision-making, so why would anyone bother with politics except the ambitious?

I wonder whether a Swiss-style Canton model, or an Anarcho-Syndicalist model would necessarily reverse the process of business as usual. This is not rhetorical - I do wonder this. But I agree that freemarket capitalism needs to be dramatically reversed from its current fossil fuel-dependent model  for us to survive long-term.

I realize this position is also ideological. After all, we both have an interest in saving the planet.

Some don’t, you know. I’ve talked to Christians who have no problem with speeding up Armageddon and Christ’s so-called return. They believe the whole world is in His hands, after all.

Reagan and Thatcherites believe in the invisible hand, so it’s interesting how some ideologies seamlessly flow into others almost organically.
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #123 - Apr 5th, 2013 at 5:45pm
 
Smiley Nope, I don't accept that a bunch of guys working out a way of accumulating a bundle of capital by selling shares is an ideology. But the idea quickly led to wisespread use because it provided the funds to enable the big projects that flowed from the big ideas of the period to happen. The problems came later with the complete abandonment of good old book-keeping and the development of futures, derivatives and woo woo junk. The economy isn't in the hands of economists anymore, it's in the hands of mathematicians specialising in abstract theories to cover ponzi pyramids with equation wallpaper that nobody has a hope in hell of understanding. Hahahaha it's a serious problem  Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #124 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:22am
 
FD wrote on Apr 5th, 2013 at 3:15pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 5th, 2013 at 9:25am:
What if the community decides to stop non-Western immigration? What if they decide to sack most public servants?


The community? The two main parties support the UNHCR and multiculturalism. Both parties abandoned the White Australia policy. The community is free to vote in the White Australia Party, but you know how likely this is to happen.

I believe the Liberal/National government in Queensland have started on your second point. As far as I can tell, it's not a very popular policy at all.

As a devoted public servant myself, I can assure you: I have no problem with the governments clearing out the dead wood. I never join the PSA union marches.

But when you sack, teachers, nurses and cops, the community do tend to get a little shirty. As most of your "non-Western" immigration is designed to fill such positions, they wouldn't be too happy with the lack of doctors and nurses either.


They were just extreme examples to see how seriously you took democracy and community based decision making.
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #125 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:30am
 
Grey wrote on Apr 4th, 2013 at 5:18pm:
And so I make an assertion, there ARE freethinkers. And what is more they DO have an impact. In fact all of the above have had an impact on me, not least Ursula Le Guin, with 'The Dispossed'.

So what produces 'freethinkers'? Disillusionment? It must be one of the drivers at least. Feminism, I count as the ism that did most to teach me how to think. Powerful argument dispersed the illusion of the patriarchal and left a space that filled with questions aimed at all other assumptions.

Surely there has never been more disillusionment than there is now. Surely the ranks of freethinkers are growing? Which means that there is a market for new ideas. Anarchism, ( of a form) is a possible, it just requires a marketing team to get it over the 100th monkey line.   


Could feminism be the driving force of disillusionment rather than its antidote?
Disillusionment or pessimism isn't an objective reality, rather, it is an attitude we humans project onto the world. The question then becomes: Which movements today are projecting this disillusionment?
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #126 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:35am
 
FD wrote on Apr 5th, 2013 at 3:03pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 5th, 2013 at 9:43am:
There's a reason why I spend most of my time here criticising academics and not Murdoch and TT etc. Academics are meant to be the bastion of truth and inquiry. Yet, I've lost count at the amount of times I've seen dishonesty from them. Journalists are trash: Fact. I expect nothing more than sensationalist garbage coming out of their mouths. Academics, on the other hand, are supposed to enlighten, yet they are just as manipulative.


Which academics, Mistie, have actually been caught out lying?


I used the word "manipulation", not lying (which came from your previous post).

Although I don't doubt some lie.
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #127 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:58am
 
You do realize academics have a process of peer-review, right?

Which published articles have been "manipulated", Mistie?

Please post one and we’ll compare it to a good Today Tonight story.
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #128 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 11:14am
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:30am:
[quote author=retrac link=1364174580/110#110 date=1365059926]. The question then becomes: Which movements today are projecting this disillusionment?


That’s easy..The neo- Nazi knucklehead movement to reclaim the Western world for white old boys and ban all "non-Western" immigration.

The movement which champions Alan and Today Tonight over referenced, peer-reviewed and fact-checked literature because it doesn’t like what it has to say; in a nutshel, a movement that would prefer to believe lies than truths just because it wants to; a movement profoundly disillusioned with social change and competing sources of power.

We know you’d balk at such a negative movement, Mistie. You’re positive.
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #129 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 11:22am
 
FD wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:58am:
You do realize academics have a process of peer-review, right?

Which published articles have been "manipulated", Mistie?

Please post one and we’ll compare it to a good Today Tonight story.



I'll come back to this. I have to dig the articles out of my archives.
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #130 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 11:28am
 
FD wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 11:14am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:30am:
[quote author=retrac link=1364174580/110#110 date=1365059926]. The question then becomes: Which movements today are projecting this disillusionment?


That’s easy..The neo- Nazi knucklehead movement to reclaim the Western world for white old boys and ban all "non-Western" immigration.

The movement which champions Alan and Today Tonight over referenced, peer-reviewed and fact-checked literature because it doesn’t like what it has to say; in a nutshel, a movement that would prefer to believe lies than truths just because it wants to; a movement profoundly disillusioned with social change and competing sources of power.

We know you’d balk at such a negative movement, Mistie. You’re positive.


Arh, yes, all those social movements since the 1960s are the bastion of optimism and the good. While any conservative movement is the epitome of evil.
Rubbish of course. The social movements since the 1960s have been hell bent on reinterpreting the past as nothing but slavery, imperialism, wars, rape, murder, patriarchy, racism, classism, sexism etc. And everyone should bow their heads in shame because of it. The social movements since the 1960s are the pessimists and guilt makers par excellence.
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Grey
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #131 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 11:30am
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:35am:
FD wrote on Apr 5th, 2013 at 3:03pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 5th, 2013 at 9:43am:
There's a reason why I spend most of my time here criticising academics and not Murdoch and TT etc. Academics are meant to be the bastion of truth and inquiry. Yet, I've lost count at the amount of times I've seen dishonesty from them. Journalists are trash: Fact. I expect nothing more than sensationalist garbage coming out of their mouths. Academics, on the other hand, are supposed to enlighten, yet they are just as manipulative.


Which academics, Mistie, have actually been caught out lying?


I used the word "manipulation", not lying (which came from your previous post).

Although I don't doubt some lie.


You also used the word 'dishonesty' and as you now admit to having no doubt they lie, it makes me wonder what your problem is with Karnal's post? It's only been 15 years since I got my humanities degree. I must say I was impressed by academia's rigourous pursuit of truth. I think we need some kind of example or fr'instance, to find your allegations credible.
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Grey
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #132 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 11:40am
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 11:28am:
FD wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 11:14am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:30am:
[quote author=retrac link=1364174580/110#110 date=1365059926]. The question then becomes: Which movements today are projecting this disillusionment?


That’s easy..The neo- Nazi knucklehead movement to reclaim the Western world for white old boys and ban all "non-Western" immigration.

The movement which champions Alan and Today Tonight over referenced, peer-reviewed and fact-checked literature because it doesn’t like what it has to say; in a nutshel, a movement that would prefer to believe lies than truths just because it wants to; a movement profoundly disillusioned with social change and competing sources of power.

We know you’d balk at such a negative movement, Mistie. You’re positive.


Arh, yes, all those social movements since the 1960s are the bastion of optimism and the good. While any conservative movement is the epitome of evil.
Rubbish of course. The social movements since the 1960s have been hell bent on reinterpreting the past as nothing but slavery, imperialism, wars, rape, murder, patriarchy, racism, classism, sexism etc. And everyone should bow their heads in shame because of it. The social movements since the 1960s are the pessimists and guilt makers par excellence.


ah yes the 'black armband' v 'rahh rahh' view of history. Well it was all rahh rahh for a long time so a bit of balance was necessary for a while and both these discourses are fuelled by academics, no? I don't think people have to lie to hold one view or another. the lie would be formed by suppressing one view. Is it not so?
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FD
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #133 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 12:03pm
 
Mistie’s coming back to this, Grey. He needs to go through his old articles, check the references, weigh up their findings against their research methods, etc, etc, etc, that sort of thing.

Shall we discuss Alan’s research for his proposal to make Australia’s rivers flow in the opposite direction? Or his research that shows wetbacks to Australia receiving foodstamps from the Australian government? His research into the high proportion of terrorist-backed refugees who bring their bombs across the Torres Strait in leaky fishing boats and refuse to assimilate? Or his comprehensive research on the benefits of global warming, the idiocy of global warming, the proof of global cooling, and the evidence that, okay, there probably is global warming but there’s nothing you can do about it?

But beside all that, are we allowed to know who pays Alan to have such well-researched opinions and keep his listeners so informed?

Absolutely not. That’s none of our business. Alan makes a positive contribution to our proud society and will not, will not criticize his own culture.

Unless you pay him for it.
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Re: Anarchism
Reply #134 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 12:17pm
 
Grey wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 11:40am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 11:28am:
FD wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 11:14am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:30am:
[quote author=retrac link=1364174580/110#110 date=1365059926]. The question then becomes: Which movements today are projecting this disillusionment?


That’s easy..The neo- Nazi knucklehead movement to reclaim the Western world for white old boys and ban all "non-Western" immigration.

The movement which champions Alan and Today Tonight over referenced, peer-reviewed and fact-checked literature because it doesn’t like what it has to say; in a nutshel, a movement that would prefer to believe lies than truths just because it wants to; a movement profoundly disillusioned with social change and competing sources of power.

We know you’d balk at such a negative movement, Mistie. You’re positive.


Arh, yes, all those social movements since the 1960s are the bastion of optimism and the good. While any conservative movement is the epitome of evil.
Rubbish of course. The social movements since the 1960s have been hell bent on reinterpreting the past as nothing but slavery, imperialism, wars, rape, murder, patriarchy, racism, classism, sexism etc. And everyone should bow their heads in shame because of it. The social movements since the 1960s are the pessimists and guilt makers par excellence.


ah yes the 'black armband' v 'rahh rahh' view of history. Well it was all rahh rahh for a long time so a bit of balance was necessary for a while and both these discourses are fuelled by academics, no? I don't think people have to lie to hold one view or another. the lie would be formed by suppressing one view. Is it not so?


Mistie’s already addressed this one, Grey. He takes the post-structuralist view that truth is relative, and determined by epistemes of power and knowledge, a rhizome of competing discourses, genres, sign systems and cultural practices, all competing for the phallocentric symbolic order known as truth.

Mistie, you see, works at a uni.
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