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Murdoch and the NBN (Read 8630 times)
NBNMyths
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #60 - Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:15pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 10:43am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 8:56am:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 8:48am:
laying fibre is no cheaper than copper. l



I think you'll find that 'LAYING" either costs roughly the same.
However copper would be more expensive than fiber.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 8:48am:
In september FTTH ends and FTTN begins


I wouldn't put money on that.


granted... it might take until december. but the NBN as it is currently deployed is over. they know it as does everyone else. and FTTN will be put in place at 1/4 the cost and ten years ahead of schedule. A win for everyone.


If FTTP stops at all, it certainly won't stop in September. Or December. Turnbull says all current contracts will be honoured, and the current FTTP contracts will run for at least another 2 years. 4 with any luck.

As to cost and time...

You have already been corrected on the cost. Even if Telstra give NBN Co their copper for free (extremely unlikely), then the cost of FTTN will be at least $19bn, plus what has already been spent/contracted on the FTTP rollout.

And considering it's already 2013, and the FTTP build is scheduled to be complete in June 2021, I'd love to know how FTTN could be completed 10 years earlier unless they have access to a time machine.  Grin
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NBNMyths
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #61 - Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:30pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:05pm:
1/4 of the cost would be 8-10 billion.

10 years ahead of schedule would be 2011.

Like you expected the NBN to be finished by 2011??  every month they fall further behind. they have so far passed 72000 premises out of 12.2million in just over 4 years. not good.


You said "scheduled" completion. The NBN is scheduled to be complete in 2021.

They have not been building it for 4 years. They only let the construction contracts in mid-late 2011. The NBN is currently under construction for 784,000 premises and they have not changed their assessment. The 2012 Corp plan said 286,000pp by 6/2013, and that is still the projection.


As for the nbn being over - any contracts they enter in to (some until 2015/2015) may have to be fulfilled - unless the coalition want to pay billions in penalties.

If I was Mike Quigley I would sign companies up until the end of the roll out and then watch the coalition try to get out of the contracts.

Thats the advantage of being in govt. you can pass legislation specifically to void contracts like that. Rudd cancelled many Howard contracts. thats the prerogative of being in govt. get used to it!


Firstly, Turnbull has already said they would honour existing construction contracts.

Secondly, they won't have control of the senate and will therefore be unable to enact such legislation.

Thirdly, are you seriously advocating the Govt passing legislation to specifically cancel legal contracts with companies without paying any compensation probably sending many of them to the wall considering they will have spent millions of dollars and employed thousands of people on the basis of their contracts?


Unless they have a copper network and a time machine, they won't be able to fulfill this promise.

The copper network which they will either buy from Telstra is worth about $20 billion.

As for the time frame - fttn could be finished by 2019 - wow a whole 2 years ahead of ftth, with 3/4 of the cost.

wrong again. it will be finished a decade ahead of the NBN at 1/4 the cost. and BTW. the copper is already there!


It's there, but NBN Co don't own it. Telstra do. Do you expect them to give it away for free, or do you expect the Coalition to pass legislation to nationalise it?

Citigroup costed the Coalition's FTTN plan last year at $16.9bn (not including satellites, buying copper from Telstra or FTTP build so far)
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NBNMyths
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #62 - Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:32pm  
double post
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longweekend58
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #63 - Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:56pm  
NBNMyths wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:15pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 10:43am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 8:56am:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 8:48am:
laying fibre is no cheaper than copper. l



I think you'll find that 'LAYING" either costs roughly the same.
However copper would be more expensive than fiber.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 8:48am:
In september FTTH ends and FTTN begins


I wouldn't put money on that.


granted... it might take until december. but the NBN as it is currently deployed is over. they know it as does everyone else. and FTTN will be put in place at 1/4 the cost and ten years ahead of schedule. A win for everyone.


If FTTP stops at all, it certainly won't stop in September. Or December. Turnbull says all current contracts will be honoured, and the current FTTP contracts will run for at least another 2 years. 4 with any luck.

As to cost and time...

You have already been corrected on the cost. Even if Telstra give NBN Co their copper for free (extremely unlikely), then the cost of FTTN will be at least $19bn, plus what has already been spent/contracted on the FTTP rollout.

And considering it's already 2013, and the FTTP build is scheduled to be complete in June 2021, I'd love to know how FTTN could be completed 10 years earlier unless they have access to a time machine.  Grin


pretty easy... FTTP would not have been completed by 2021 or anywhere near it. they fall further behind each and every day. 2031 is more like it.

anyhow I dont care. come election time the NBN will be changing very very quickly. And Rudd said the same thing about honouring contracts before the 2007 election and then tore them all up as soon as he took office. expect the same. In fact the NBN have already been formally notified by Turnball that they are required by law to advise their contractors that they coalition intends to change them.

get over it. FTTH is coming... HAHA!
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #64 - Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:58pm  
NBNMyths wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:30pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:05pm:
1/4 of the cost would be 8-10 billion.

10 years ahead of schedule would be 2011.

Like you expected the NBN to be finished by 2011??  every month they fall further behind. they have so far passed 72000 premises out of 12.2million in just over 4 years. not good.


You said "scheduled" completion. The NBN is scheduled to be complete in 2021.

They have not been building it for 4 years. They only let the construction contracts in mid-late 2011. The NBN is currently under construction for 784,000 premises and they have not changed their assessment. The 2012 Corp plan said 286,000pp by 6/2013, and that is still the projection.


As for the nbn being over - any contracts they enter in to (some until 2015/2015) may have to be fulfilled - unless the coalition want to pay billions in penalties.

If I was Mike Quigley I would sign companies up until the end of the roll out and then watch the coalition try to get out of the contracts.

Thats the advantage of being in govt. you can pass legislation specifically to void contracts like that. Rudd cancelled many Howard contracts. thats the prerogative of being in govt. get used to it!


Firstly, Turnbull has already said they would honour existing construction contracts.

Secondly, they won't have control of the senate and will therefore be unable to enact such legislation.

Thirdly, are you seriously advocating the Govt passing legislation to specifically cancel legal contracts with companies without paying any compensation probably sending many of them to the wall considering they will have spent millions of dollars and employed thousands of people on the basis of their contracts?


Unless they have a copper network and a time machine, they won't be able to fulfill this promise.

The copper network which they will either buy from Telstra is worth about $20 billion.

As for the time frame - fttn could be finished by 2019 - wow a whole 2 years ahead of ftth, with 3/4 of the cost.

wrong again. it will be finished a decade ahead of the NBN at 1/4 the cost. and BTW. the copper is already there!


It's there, but NBN Co don't own it. Telstra do. Do you expect them to give it away for free, or do you expect the Coalition to pass legislation to nationalise it?

Citigroup costed the Coalition's FTTN plan last year at $16.9bn (not including satellites, buying copper from Telstra or FTTP build so far)






you are just a paid NBN poster. yrou opinions are worthless and certainly poorly put together in light of polticial history. the govt can cancel many of these contracts without legislation just as Rudd did.

and they dont have to buy Telstras copper. What are Telstra going to do> disconnect it?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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NBNMyths
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #65 - Mar 1st, 2013 at 8:12pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:56pm:
pretty easy... FTTP would not have been completed by 2021 or anywhere near it. they fall further behind each and every day. 2031 is more like it.

anyhow I dont care. come election time the NBN will be changing very very quickly. And Rudd said the same thing about honouring contracts before the 2007 election and then tore them all up as soon as he took office. expect the same. In fact the NBN have already been formally notified by Turnball that they are required by law to advise their contractors that they coalition intends to change them.

get over it. FTTH is coming... HAHA!


Actually, the rollout is doing quite well at present. Although they are behind in WA, SA and NT, they are ahead in NSW, ACT, VIC, TAS and QLD so overall are on track to meet their June 2013 target of passing 286,000 premises.

Turnbull might like NBN Co to put outs in the contracts, but they are under no obligation to do so. NBN Co are most certainly not required to tell contractors that the coalition will change the policy. Their only legal obligation as a GBE is to carry out the orders of the Government of the day. Where do you get this rubbish?
http://delimiter.com.au/2013/02/07/caretaker-mode-no-nbn-co-should-go-hog-wild/

Oh, and FTTH (Fibre To The Home) is coming you say? Woohoo.  Grin


longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:58pm:
you are just a paid NBN poster. yrou opinions are worthless and certainly poorly put together in light of polticial history. the govt can cancel many of these contracts without legislation just as Rudd did.

and they dont have to buy Telstras copper. What are Telstra going to do> disconnect it?


1. I absolutely am not a paid NBN poster. I'm a firefighter FFS. My identity and employment (unlike yours) is on the public record.

2. Rudd cancelled the OPEL contracts because OPEL were not meeting their contract obligations. Simple.

As for your Telstra comment....Seriously? You are advocating NBN Co forcibly take possession of Telstra's copper without paying for it? I think that's called theft and I imagine a few judges might have a differing opinion to yours. How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you make such patently ridiculous statements?

You can't honestly believe the Coalition will take a policy to the election of stealing the assets of a public company?
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John Smith
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #66 - Mar 1st, 2013 at 10:07pm  
longlooser always makes comments on subjects he has no idea about ....

he actually believes the govt. can just pass a law to scrap contracts? and he claims he's in business?

and his other comment  .. he thinks Abbott will just take the copper network of telstra? is that how he sees the libs gaining a surplus perhaps? by selling it back to Telstra in another few years?

longlooser, even if the govt. could do all that you claim, and I don't believe it for a minute ... it would be the death knell of the govt. .... how do you expect any company to ever commit to anything with any govt. department again?
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longweekend58
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #67 - Mar 2nd, 2013 at 7:38am  
NBNMyths wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 8:12pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:56pm:
pretty easy... FTTP would not have been completed by 2021 or anywhere near it. they fall further behind each and every day. 2031 is more like it.

anyhow I dont care. come election time the NBN will be changing very very quickly. And Rudd said the same thing about honouring contracts before the 2007 election and then tore them all up as soon as he took office. expect the same. In fact the NBN have already been formally notified by Turnball that they are required by law to advise their contractors that they coalition intends to change them.

get over it. FTTH is coming... HAHA!


Actually, the rollout is doing quite well at present. Although they are behind in WA, SA and NT, they are ahead in NSW, ACT, VIC, TAS and QLD so overall are on track to meet their June 2013 target of passing 286,000 premises.

Turnbull might like NBN Co to put outs in the contracts, but they are under no obligation to do so. NBN Co are most certainly not required to tell contractors that the coalition will change the policy. Their only legal obligation as a GBE is to carry out the orders of the Government of the day. Where do you get this rubbish?
http://delimiter.com.au/2013/02/07/caretaker-mode-no-nbn-co-should-go-hog-wild/

Oh, and FTTH (Fibre To The Home) is coming you say? Woohoo.  Grin


longweekend58 wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 4:58pm:
you are just a paid NBN poster. yrou opinions are worthless and certainly poorly put together in light of polticial history. the govt can cancel many of these contracts without legislation just as Rudd did.

and they dont have to buy Telstras copper. What are Telstra going to do> disconnect it?


1. I absolutely am not a paid NBN poster. I'm a firefighter FFS. My identity and employment (unlike yours) is on the public record.

2. Rudd cancelled the OPEL contracts because OPEL were not meeting their contract obligations. Simple.

As for your Telstra comment....Seriously? You are advocating NBN Co forcibly take possession of Telstra's copper without paying for it? I think that's called theft and I imagine a few judges might have a differing opinion to yours. How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you make such patently ridiculous statements?

You can't honestly believe the Coalition will take a policy to the election of stealing the assets of a public company?


so is NBNMYTHS your first or last name?? What does it mean that you name is on public record as if no one else's isnt??? you are as anonymous as the rest of us.

and I look forward to the NBN being converted to FTTN if only to shaft the arrogant like you.
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longweekend58
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #68 - Mar 2nd, 2013 at 7:41am  
John Smith wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 10:07pm:
longlooser always makes comments on subjects he has no idea about ....

he actually believes the govt. can just pass a law to scrap contracts? and he claims he's in business?

and his other comment  .. he thinks Abbott will just take the copper network of telstra? is that how he sees the libs gaining a surplus perhaps? by selling it back to Telstra in another few years?

longlooser, even if the govt. could do all that you claim, and I don't believe it for a minute ... it would be the death knell of the govt. .... how do you expect any company to ever commit to anything with any govt. department again?


Rudd cancelled all the broadband contracts when he took office. he also cancelled a lot of water contracts. Do you think this is news? The NBN has been told they are to tell their contractors that there wil be a change of govt and a change of technology. And if they want to keep their jobs on Sept 15 they would do well to abide by that. Quigley is already saying NBN needs to investigate alternative technologies. he has obviously seen what is coming.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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NBNMyths
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #69 - Mar 2nd, 2013 at 8:01am  
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 7:38am:
so is NBNMYTHS your first or last name?? What does it mean that you name is on public record as if no one else's isnt??? you are as anonymous as the rest of us.

and I look forward to the NBN being converted to FTTN if only to shaft the arrogant like you.


Perhaps if you looked at the about page at the NBNmyths site. Not really difficult, is it?
http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/about/
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NBNMyths
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #70 - Mar 2nd, 2013 at 8:25am  
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 7:41am:
John Smith wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 10:07pm:
longlooser always makes comments on subjects he has no idea about ....

he actually believes the govt. can just pass a law to scrap contracts? and he claims he's in business?

and his other comment  .. he thinks Abbott will just take the copper network of telstra? is that how he sees the libs gaining a surplus perhaps? by selling it back to Telstra in another few years?

longlooser, even if the govt. could do all that you claim, and I don't believe it for a minute ... it would be the death knell of the govt. .... how do you expect any company to ever commit to anything with any govt. department again?


Rudd cancelled all the broadband contracts when he took office. he also cancelled a lot of water contracts. Do you think this is news? The NBN has been told they are to tell their contractors that there wil be a change of govt and a change of technology. And if they want to keep their jobs on Sept 15 they would do well to abide by that. Quigley is already saying NBN needs to investigate alternative technologies. he has obviously seen what is coming.


What Turnbull says NBN Co "have to do" and what they actually have to do are completely different things. There is no obligation for NBN Co to do anything of the sort. None. Zip. Zero. Zilch. They can sign an FTTP contract to the end of the rollout if they want to.

There is not even any certainty that there will be a change in technology, because Turnbull says that (even though he believes FTTN is the way to go), he won't change anything until the PC does a CBA of the different options available.

Oh, and Mr Quigley did not say that at all.

I can only imagine what you'd be saying if the ALP were proposing to forcibly nationalise the assets of a public company, yet you're advocating the Coalition actually do so. It's remarkable. Shocked


So how about you stop talking out of your @rse, creating policies and rules that not only don't exist, but don't even follow basic common law or the stated policies of your preferred bunch of political rabble.
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John Smith
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #71 - Mar 2nd, 2013 at 9:00am  
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 7:41am:
John Smith wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 10:07pm:
longlooser always makes comments on subjects he has no idea about ....

he actually believes the govt. can just pass a law to scrap contracts? and he claims he's in business?

and his other comment  .. he thinks Abbott will just take the copper network of telstra? is that how he sees the libs gaining a surplus perhaps? by selling it back to Telstra in another few years?

longlooser, even if the govt. could do all that you claim, and I don't believe it for a minute ... it would be the death knell of the govt. .... how do you expect any company to ever commit to anything with any govt. department again?


Rudd cancelled all the broadband contracts when he took office. he also cancelled a lot of water contracts. Do you think this is news? The NBN has been told they are to tell their contractors that there wil be a change of govt and a change of technology. And if they want to keep their jobs on Sept 15 they would do well to abide by that. Quigley is already saying NBN needs to investigate alternative technologies. he has obviously seen what is coming.


Rudd cancelled the contracts because the companies contracted were not keeping to the terms of the contract.  Not the same thing.
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #72 - Mar 2nd, 2013 at 9:04am  
NBNMyths wrote on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 8:01am:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 7:38am:
so is NBNMYTHS your first or last name?? What does it mean that you name is on public record as if no one else's isnt??? you are as anonymous as the rest of us.

and I look forward to the NBN being converted to FTTN if only to shaft the arrogant like you.


Perhaps if you looked at the about page at the NBNmyths site. Not really difficult, is it?
http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/about/




Nice retainer from NBN Co no doubt on this one.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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NBNMyths
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #73 - Mar 2nd, 2013 at 9:12am  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 9:04am:
NBNMyths wrote on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 8:01am:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 7:38am:
so is NBNMYTHS your first or last name?? What does it mean that you name is on public record as if no one else's isnt??? you are as anonymous as the rest of us.

and I look forward to the NBN being converted to FTTN if only to shaft the arrogant like you.


Perhaps if you looked at the about page at the NBNmyths site. Not really difficult, is it?
http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/about/




Nice retainer from NBN Co no doubt on this one.


As I've written several times, I do not and have never received any payment of any kind for that site or anything else I have ever done in relation to the NBN.

Sorry if your right-wing ideology prevents you from believing that someone would make any effort to do anything without being paid for it.  Roll Eyes
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Re: Murdoch and the NBN
Reply #74 - Mar 2nd, 2013 at 9:12am  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 28th, 2013 at 10:28am:
If you want a programme to pay for itself, you roll it out where it makes the most economic sense.

Rolling it out first to people who live in the middle of fking nowhere makes no sense whatsoever.

You should have a 2 tier system with the capital cities receiving the most expensive, fastest network and then the countryside receiving it later on down the track when the additional capital can afford to do it.

Rolling it out to the hillbillies who live about 5 miles from each neighbour makes no economic sense whatsoever.

Honestly, I don't think public servants ever have the first clue as to how to run something within budget.


That's why those people will be serviced by wireless or satellite. 93% of houses are slated for connection by fibre, which is a very similar percentage to the number of people who live in urban areas.  fancy that.  Did you really think anyone would be so reckless as to spend $50,000 laying fibre to a handful of houses?
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