Australian Politics Forum - Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well

greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 156465 Gender:	Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well Reply #45 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:50pm Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:42pm: It's the method of arrival that makes them illegals via their attempt to enter Australian territory without a passport or visa. No, if they are claiming asylum, that does not make them illegal immigrants.
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well
Reply #46 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:58pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:26pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 11:25am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 10:03am:

The 'problem' is not nauru.

if people want to come here illegally, then attempt suicide when they are processed, that's their call.

When do Abbott's and his clodhoppers realise you cannot alter a legal status by voicing an OPINION ?

There is NOTHING "illegal" in being a refugee

If there WERE, Keating and Howard could have LEGALLY deported them on arrival

When will you realise that they are, by their very definition, illegal immigrants? Do you not realise that the official term for the vessels they come on are known as a "SIEV"? That means Suspected Illegal Entry Vessel. When will you realise that until a decision has been made on their claim for asylum, they are indeed known as "illegal immigrants". If a decision is made in which their application for asylum is approved, they are released from detention and no further action taken against them. If, however, their application is denied, they are then put through the deportation process for having arrived in Australia illegally without a valid passport and visa. Until any decision is made regarding their request for asylum, they are (or were, until Gillard decided to bunk them next door to female students at a Sydney University) detained in an immigration detention facility.

Consider yourself to now be properly and correctly informed.

When will you realise that until a decision has been made on their claim for asylum, they are indeed known as "illegal immigrants".

errr...no. 100% Wrong.

They are known as unlawful non-citizens under the Act

Not "illegal immigrants".

There is nothing illegal about seeking asylum

Wow, thick as a brick you are! Yes, you are right that there is nothing illegal about claiming asylum. It's the method of arrival that makes them illegals via their attempt to enter Australian territory without a passport or visa. It is a breach of the Immigration Act (hence, it is illegal) to enter this country without those documents. You cannot even board a Qantas flight in Los Angeles or Auckland or London to come here without first showing your passport. The same applies for those who come by boat. If Jacques Cousteau were still alive and he came here on his yacht and didn't have his passport and visa, he'd be denied entry. It's that simple. There is no stigma attached to these people being called "illegal immigrants". It's just a fact and part of a process that begins the assessment of their application. If they're successful in applying then they are not charged with anything and will have no criminal record. If they're unsuccessful in applying they will then commence the process for deportation.

Now, did I dumb that down sufficiently for your level of intelligence so you can understand the true facts???

Read section 14 of the Act. You are wrong. 100% wrong.

(1) A non-citizen in the migration zone who is not a lawful non-citizen is an unlawful non-citizen.

(2) To avoid doubt, a non-citizen in the migration zone who, immediately before 1 September 1994, was an illegal entrant within the meaning of the Migration Act as in force then became, on that date, an unlawful non-citizen.

They are not illegal immigrants.

THere is nothing illegal about seeking asylum.
An asylum seeker is NOT an illegal immigrant.

Read the legislation moron.

I never said it was illegal to seek asylum. Not once. I can see where you're confused though. Let me dumb it down even more for you. Those people who come by boat could not be detained without a legal basis for doing so. We also can't let them just run around willy-nilly. So for the period of time that it takes their application for asylum to be requested, they are detained as illegal immigrants (i.e. they did not enter through a recognised port, nor did they carry any relevant identifying documentation such as a passport and visa). You know what happens if their claim is successful or not, so I'm not going to bother repeating it for the Dumber half of Dumb & Dumber...

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well
Reply #47 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:01pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:58pm:

I never said it was illegal to seek asylum. Not once. I can see where you're confused though. Let me dumb it down even more for you. Those people who come by boat could not be detained without a legal basis for doing so. We also can't let them just run around willy-nilly. So for the period of time that it takes their application for asylum to be requested, they are detained as illegal immigrants (i.e. they did not enter through a recognised port, nor did they carry any relevant identifying documentation such as a passport and visa). You know what happens if their claim is successful or not, so I'm not going to bother repeating it for the Dumber half of Dumb & Dumber...

You said:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

When will you realise that they are, by their very definition, illegal immigrants?

You were 100% wrong

They are not "illegal immigrants"

There is nothing illegal about seeking asylum.
An asylum seeker is NOT an illegal immigrant.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well
Reply #48 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:35pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:58pm:

So for the period of time that it takes their application for asylum to be requested, they are detained as illegal immigrants (i.e. they did not enter through a recognised port, nor did they carry any relevant identifying documentation such as a passport and visa).

Nope, they're detained as Irregular Maritime Arrivals.

Asylum seekers aren't illegal immigrants.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well
Reply #49 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:40pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:41pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:22pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:05pm:

The advice was that Nauru would no longer work. Tony insisted that it was the only off shore solution he would consider - he finally got his way and it has failed.

You don't blame opposition for Government implemented policy.

Just like with the surplus promise why didn't the Government have more balls and fight back with its own policy.

This Government is weak and blaming opposition for a policy the Government ran with is absurd.

Macca was pleased when Gillard buckled to impliment the Liberals policy - after blocking any other option for about 12 months saying just get on the phone to Nauru Tony Macca and the libs were over the moon. It didn't work.

The only option which Tony didn't block didn't work.

the government needs to be held fully accountable for adopting the Liberal's useless, ineffective and expensive policy.

What will they do next? Ditch the carbon price and give us "Direct Action" - because Tony wants it?
It was bad enough having a Liberal government delivering stupid policies like Nauru. I don't know why Labor has to copy them.

Awww, now you're just throwing the facts right out the window. First of all, the Pacific Solution worked. There were less than a dozen people in detention when Rudd took over. We now get in 2-3 weeks the number of boats Howard got in a year. Since Rudd scrapped the pacific Solution, more than 30,000 have come by boat with around 1,000 perishing at sea on Labor's watch. So it is neither an ineffective nor useless policy. As for the cost, you must enjoy making a jackass out of yourself. The policy known as the Pacific Solution cost taxpayers less than $100m per year to run whereas under Labor the cost to taxpayers now exceeds $1.5 billion per year, more than 15 times the cost of the Pacific Solution!

Just give up before you make a bigger jackass of yourself.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well Reply #50 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:41pm I smashed both of you lefties on here the other day and you still have not learnt
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well
Reply #51 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:45pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:26pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 11:25am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 10:03am:

The 'problem' is not nauru.

if people want to come here illegally, then attempt suicide when they are processed, that's their call.

When do Abbott's and his clodhoppers realise you cannot alter a legal status by voicing an OPINION ?

There is NOTHING "illegal" in being a refugee

If there WERE, Keating and Howard could have LEGALLY deported them on arrival

When will you realise that they are, by their very definition, illegal immigrants? Do you not realise that the official term for the vessels they come on are known as a "SIEV"? That means Suspected Illegal Entry Vessel. When will you realise that until a decision has been made on their claim for asylum, they are indeed known as "illegal immigrants". If a decision is made in which their application for asylum is approved, they are released from detention and no further action taken against them. If, however, their application is denied, they are then put through the deportation process for having arrived in Australia illegally without a valid passport and visa. Until any decision is made regarding their request for asylum, they are (or were, until Gillard decided to bunk them next door to female students at a Sydney University) detained in an immigration detention facility.

Consider yourself to now be properly and correctly informed.

When will you realise that until a decision has been made on their claim for asylum, they are indeed known as "illegal immigrants".

errr...no. 100% Wrong.

They are known as unlawful non-citizens under the Act

Not "illegal immigrants".

There is nothing illegal about seeking asylum

Wow, thick as a brick you are! Yes, you are right that there is nothing illegal about claiming asylum. It's the method of arrival that makes them illegals via their attempt to enter Australian territory without a passport or visa. It is a breach of the Immigration Act (hence, it is illegal) to enter this country without those documents. You cannot even board a Qantas flight in Los Angeles or Auckland or London to come here without first showing your passport. The same applies for those who come by boat. If Jacques Cousteau were still alive and he came here on his yacht and didn't have his passport and visa, he'd be denied entry. It's that simple. There is no stigma attached to these people being called "illegal immigrants". It's just a fact and part of a process that begins the assessment of their application. If they're successful in applying then they are not charged with anything and will have no criminal record. If they're unsuccessful in applying they will then commence the process for deportation.

Now, did I dumb that down sufficiently for your level of intelligence so you can understand the true facts???

Wrong again. Always wrong.

Once a person arrives in Australia and seeks asylum they are in effect applying for a permanent protection visa which is dealt with under the migration act as perfectly legal, and dictates the refugee convention articles apply within our domestic law. One of which states you don't discriminate based on if the person broke the law in the method of arrival into the country. Nothing illegal there either. You are so wrong it's hilarious, and again I suggest you go read.

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Enquiring mind Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104798	Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well Reply #52 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:45pm Maqqa wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:41pm: I smashed both of you lefties on here the other day and you still have not learnt Yes. No doubt they'll vote for Mr Abbott at the next election. Good work, Maqqa.
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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well Reply #53 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:46pm I seem to recall having this discussion before.
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well
Reply #54 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:48pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:40pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:41pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:22pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 12:05pm:

The advice was that Nauru would no longer work. Tony insisted that it was the only off shore solution he would consider - he finally got his way and it has failed.

You don't blame opposition for Government implemented policy.

Just like with the surplus promise why didn't the Government have more balls and fight back with its own policy.

This Government is weak and blaming opposition for a policy the Government ran with is absurd.

Macca was pleased when Gillard buckled to impliment the Liberals policy - after blocking any other option for about 12 months saying just get on the phone to Nauru Tony Macca and the libs were over the moon. It didn't work.

The only option which Tony didn't block didn't work.

the government needs to be held fully accountable for adopting the Liberal's useless, ineffective and expensive policy.

What will they do next? Ditch the carbon price and give us "Direct Action" - because Tony wants it?
It was bad enough having a Liberal government delivering stupid policies like Nauru. I don't know why Labor has to copy them.

Awww, now you're just throwing the facts right out the window. First of all, the Pacific Solution worked. There were less than a dozen people in detention when Rudd took over. We now get in 2-3 weeks the number of boats Howard got in a year. Since Rudd scrapped the pacific Solution, more than 30,000 have come by boat with around 1,000 perishing at sea on Labor's watch. So it is neither an ineffective nor useless policy. As for the cost, you must enjoy making a jackass out of yourself. The policy known as the Pacific Solution cost taxpayers less than $100m per year to run whereas under Labor the cost to taxpayers now exceeds $1.5 billion per year, more than 15 times the cost of the Pacific Solution!

Just give up before you make a bigger jackass of yourself.

Nauru isn't working. What's Tony's next plan? Grin

And think about tpvs: they are disgusting from the point of view of our responsibilities under the refugee convention. But apart from that they are hardly a deterrent for people seeking to escape with their lives.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well
Reply #55 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:48pm

Maqqa wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:41pm:

I smashed both of you lefties on here the other day and you still have not learnt

The other day you proved to everyone, beyond all doubt, that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

You don't understand what the word "alien" means.

You don't understand what amended legislation is.

You don't know how to read current legislation.

The only thing that was "smashed" was what little was left of your dignity.

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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well Reply #56 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:48pm Not just a troll, but a boastful troll.
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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well Reply #57 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:49pm I seem to recall having this discussion before.
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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30206 Gender:	Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well Reply #58 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:49pm Maqqa wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:41pm: I smashed both of you lefties on here the other day and you still have not learnt ... and I've continued where you left off. Good fun!!!
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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: Labor have now stuffed up Nauru as well Reply #59 - Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:49pm Maqqa wrote on Feb 25^th, 2013 at 1:41pm: I smashed both of you lefties on here the other day and you still have not learnt You Dummy got so confused by the end of it you were delivering references that were contradicting your argument within the same post
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