Australian Politics Forum - Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth

... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth Reply #15 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:05pm Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:00pm: Sounds like good, solid democracy to me. In what way does a venue cancelling a booking at the last minute resemble 'democracy'?
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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #16 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:14pm

Where is the conflict with democracy? These are privately owned venues where the people responsible for such things are making decisions based on reasons that you and I are not privy to. Like I said before, if there has been some wrong doing in the way of threats of violence, I'm sure they'll be dealt with through the proper channels.

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #17 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:21pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Where is the conflict with democracy?

No conflict - there is no relationship whatsoever. But I guess people will draw all sorts of bows to justify their hypocrisy.

Forgiven.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

These are privately owned venues where the people responsible for such things are making decisions based on reasons that you and I are not privy to. Like I said before, if there has been some wrong doing in the way of threats of violence, I'm sure they'll be dealt with through the proper channels.

Vague, anonymous threats are not easily prosecutable offences. You know it, I know it and the rabble knows it - that's why they always do it.

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #18 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:29pm

... wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:21pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Where is the conflict with democracy?

No conflict - there is no relationship whatsoever. But I guess people will draw all sorts of bows to justify their hypocrisy.

Forgiven.

I was simply refuting Amadd's statement that venues cancelling Wilders appearances is no "kick in the guts to all of our past and present soldiers who think/thought that they were upholding something in this country."

Freedom is good. Wilders should be allowed to speak, protestors should be free to protest and venues should be able to make decisions about who they host. All is well. Perhaps Wilders might like to forego dealing with venues and spew his hatred in a public park or something.

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Vague, anonymous threats are not easily prosecutable offences.

Wilders' own freedom supports your point.

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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5477 Gender:	Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth Reply #19 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 2:06pm Julia Gillard, who ousted Rudd from office in June 2010, stated that she did not support Rudd's position shortly after taking over on the grounds that a "Big Australia" would be unsustainable. LIES
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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #20 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 2:34pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

Perhaps Wilders might like to forego dealing with venues and spew his hatred in a public park or something.

Perhaps, but I don't think it's too much to ask of the rabble that they needn't concern themselves with what people are saying at functions that they have no interest in attending. I had no interest in attending the big day out, yet I don't care whether others do. To each, his own - See how simple that is?

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damien Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 639 Gender:	Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth Reply #21 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 3:06pm Islam is a religion of .... love??
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aquascoot

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #22 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 3:33pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Where is the conflict with democracy? These are privately owned venues where the people responsible for such things are making decisions based on reasons that you and I are not privy to. Like I said before, if there has been some wrong doing in the way of threats of violence, I'm sure they'll be dealt with through the proper channels.

no conflict in democracy. Wink

i'm just hoping geert has time to drop in and see the old leftie hippy lesbians in canberra who are writing the national curiculum so that the school kids can get a balanced education. after all, this is a democracy and its important our kids get to hear many different points of view

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #23 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 3:38pm

... wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 2:34pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

Perhaps Wilders might like to forego dealing with venues and spew his hatred in a public park or something.

Perhaps, but I don't think it's too much to ask of the rabble that they needn't concern themselves with what people are saying at functions that they have no interest in attending. I had no interest in attending the big day out, yet I don't care whether others do. To each, his own - See how simple that is?

I don't disagree with you. The less attention Wilders receives, the better in my opinion. Let him knock himself out.

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Amadd

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #24 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 4:53pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

... wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:21pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Where is the conflict with democracy?

No conflict - there is no relationship whatsoever. But I guess people will draw all sorts of bows to justify their hypocrisy.

Forgiven.

I was simply refuting Amadd's statement that venues cancelling Wilders appearances is no "kick in the guts to all of our past and present soldiers who think/thought that they were upholding something in this country."
Freedom is good. Wilders should be allowed to speak, protestors should be free to protest and venues should be able to make decisions about who they host. All is well. Perhaps Wilders might like to forego dealing with venues and spew his hatred in a public park or something.

Quote:

Vague, anonymous threats are not easily prosecutable offences.

Wilders' own freedom supports your point.

Annie, you cannot refute something without proof.

I can refute your statement because I have proof that you provided no proof to refute my statement.

That's fine for a private venue to do as they like, however, they obviously cancelled for fear of something...and that's not what this country used to be about.

Btw, would you like to refute these statements too?

"RestoreAustralia is supporting the work of those trying to get the cowardly RSL executive to allow Geert Wilders the right to speak at their Clubs. We have had a few vocal Muslims opposing the visit by Geert, and the cowardly clubs have caved in and refused the right for true blue Australians to book their halls and listen to what Geert has to say. Where is the right to Freedom of Speech? Why are these RSL executives so afraid of a few fanatics? What the hell did we FIGHT for since World War Two?"

The following is an email exchange between a veteran and a QSociety member working to regain our right to Freedom of Speech:

"Greetings all I have sent this onto the Liberal party who sent out asking for support in the coming campaign.

Greetings Mark – Kerry passed your email onto me and like Kerry I would like to know if Tony or the Liberal Party would make a statement to support the freedoms for which our generation in WW2, and generations since, have fought to preserve, and now fighting against religious fanatics. These freedoms are associated with the right of any organisation to invite speakers who they want to listen to. The Australian Islamic Association were given the right a few months ago to invite and listen to the Secretary of the United Nations Islamic Federation of Islamic States, in Bankstown, without any hindrance or threats – as Geert Wilders tour is now attracting from fanatics associated with them – so we ask your organisation to make a statement to support our freedoms by supporting the tour.

regards Kev Dickson"

http://www.restoreaustralia.org.au/muslim-fanatics/

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« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2013 at 5:21pm by Amadd »

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aquascoot

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #25 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 5:14pm

looks like the sri lankans dont like the muslims either.

banning of mosque building and halal meats.

i think they got upset when the saudis threatened to behead some buddhists for idol worship.

not just those pesky ayrian dutch that dont like islam.

seems the asians find problems as well.

http://www.mirror.lk/news/5366-bodu-bala-sena-gives-ultimatum-to-ban-halal-certi...

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #26 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 5:29pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

Wilders' own freedom supports your point.

Don't be ridiculous.
He is under 24 hour police protection. Nobody who criticises Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism in the West is killed or under police protection. Have you noticed that?
No.

And since when is it 'hatemongering' if someone doesn't like Islam? Why is it that one must either approve of Islam or draw a discreet veil of silence?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #27 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 5:34pm

Quantum wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 10:47am:

He hates Muslims because of the fact they hate his type and way of life. Since he was living happily in his own country before the Islamic plague moved into his neighbourhood, unlike the chicken paradox, we know in this situation what actually came first.

He is still living happily in his own country - in fact he is doing very well for himself thank you very much. You make it sound like he himself is affected personally by islam - but he is not - in fact he is personally profitting by it (politically at least) - isn't that ironic! I had far more sympathy for Pym Fortuyn who's anti-islam was at least grounded in something that affected him personally (his homosexuality and the perception that muslim hated him).

No, anti-islam in Europe is overwhelmingly based on fear of what might happen, not what is already evident. I point you to the post directly above yours as a classic example: warning that once muslims become 50% of the population, goodbye freedom and secularism in Europe. But the fact is, muslim immigration to Europe has overwhelmingly been harmonious and peaceful, and has not caused any sort of social or political turmoil. And the only ammunition the fear-mongers have is what might happen in the future as a result of muslim immigration. All of which is completely baseless of course.

Amadd wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 12:16pm:

The speech should have gone ahead regardless of the catalyst involved to halt the event.

It's a real kick in the guts to all of our past and present soldiers who think/thought that they were upholding something in this country.

Weak as piss is what it is

go whinge at the owner of the venue that cancelled at the last minute. Ask him why he is "weak as piss" for being scared off by the prospect of a few hippies with placards outside his premises.

This idea that this is a "kick in the guts" for democracy is contemptible to the extreme. This whole episode is the very picture of a working democracy - Geert was allowed to enter our country and spew his hate to Australian audiences; once a venue was agreed upon, opponents made it known that they were going to exercise their democratic right to hold a protest at the venue; finally the venue owner freely decided he wasn't going to host Geert after all.

Everything that happened reflected a healthy democracy in action.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Amadd

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #28 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 5:59pm

Quote:

go whinge at the owner of the venue that cancelled at the last minute. Ask him why he is "weak as piss" for being scared off by the prospect of a few hippies with placards outside his premises.

I may do, but I'll state my opinion here too. That's what "forums" are for.

Quote:

WA Premier Colin Barnett says he may have "played some role'' in controversial Dutch MP Geert Wilders being forced to cancel his speaking engagements in Perth.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #29 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 6:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 5:34pm:

No, anti-islam in Europe is overwhelmingly based on fear of what might happen, not what is already evident. I point you to the post directly above yours as a classic example: warning that once muslims become 50% of the population, goodbye freedom and secularism in Europe. But the fact is, muslim immigration to Europe has overwhelmingly been harmonious and peaceful, and has not caused any sort of social or political turmoil. And the only ammunition the fear-mongers have is what might happen in the future as a result of muslim immigration. All of which is completely baseless of course.

My suspicions are well founded. Considering almost every piece of advancement in the past 400 years came from Western countries while Islamic countries produced nothing of value (and still don't unless they import Western technology), I think we are well within our rights to be suspicious.

The liberal democratic ideas we live by didn't emerge from Mecca. They emerged from North, West Europe, particularly Britain/England; which themselves were an outgrowth of Protestantism. That's right, Christianity.

Islamic countries produced submission to a transcendental deity over pragmatic, earthly concerns for 800 years. I doubt that this will change any time soon. I think you must believe we are pretty dumb to think Islam will willingly morph into liberal democracy.

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