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Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth (Read 22878 times)

Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #105 - Feb 23^rd, 2013 at 4:59pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2013 at 10:06am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2013 at 9:33pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2013 at 10:34am:

MM, I'm quite ignorant of Islamic history so I'm somewhat hesitant to put this out there, but haven't most countries with Muslim majorities been colonised or suffered from significant Western meddling? And aren't most post-colonial countries left in states of chaos and instability?

I don't buy that angle.
The problem with all Islamic countries is its metaphysics. Look at what they hold as important; what is it they value? Submission to a transcendent god. And they're willing to enforce this brutally. If submitting to a god is held as the highest value, and all other considerations play second fiddle, then their societies will reflect that. Infrastructure, science, and the arts will hardly rate a mention.

Contrast this with what the west values.

That's a fair point, but wasn't that submission still the be all and end all a thousand years ago when Muslims were making extensive valuable contributions to progress at that time?

I can't say for sure as I am not an Islamic historian. But I doubt it was. Advancements and/or progress of any kind requires questioning, curiousness, experimentation, and the freedom to be able to do this (negative freedom). How can one submit to the laws of a single god or book (Koran) and make progress at the same time? There's an element of rebellion in all progress.

The scientific revolution in Europe occurred when Platonic metaphysics was overturned. The truth wasn't found in abstract "forms" via meditation any more. "The New Method," as Francis Bacon claimed, was to be found in scientific method or natural philosophy - observation, cognition, theory, experiment, data collection, collation of data, hypothesis. Truths were brought down to earth.

Islam today is still a form of Platonism (and ironically partly Jewish). Truths that exist in an "other-worldy" realm and not of this earth are Platonized metaphysics (of which he probably inherited from Jews and Egyptians). Until Muslims change their metaphysics, and re-order their priorities and values they will remain backward.

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Karnal

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #106 - Feb 23^rd, 2013 at 5:39pm

Ah - how can you submit to the laws of Gud and study the natural laws of science?

When your scriptures teach that those laws are one and the same.

In the Muslim world, all that study of maths, astronomy and geometry was about uncovering the mind of Gud. This wasn’t "out there" somewhere, but here in the social, celestial and natural world. Islam is far more Aristotelian than Platonic.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #107 - Feb 23^rd, 2013 at 6:03pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2013 at 5:39pm:

I would surmise you are correct in that 800 years ago it was more Aristotelian. That is the only rational explanation for why there could have been discoveries. The early sciences in Europe started out exactly the same way.

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Karnal

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #108 - Feb 23^rd, 2013 at 6:33pm

True. They got their inspiration from the same place - the Greek texts that came out of Byzantium/Constantinople.

Shakespeare, for example, made Othello a Moor for a reason. The Elizabethans looked at the Islamic world as a place of science, reason and logic. Venice at the time was the centre of Western trade with the East - hence the Islamic influence and the presence of Muslim immigrants like Othello.

Shakespeare, of course, didn’t choose an Ottoman, but a Moor - a civilization that was in decline during Shakespeare’s time. There were no doubt political reasons for this, although I’m not sure where England’s alliances lay at the time.

Who knows? England may very well have supported an Ottoman conquest of its enemies.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #109 - Feb 24^th, 2013 at 3:47pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2013 at 4:12pm:

That they did. Islam's legal code including the dhimmi system was revolutionary in the way it treated their non-muslim subjects. In fact, the dhimmi system, with the revenue it created for the caliphate, gave the muslim conquerers the best incentive not to force convert their subjects, and allowing them to continue worshipping and going about their business. Little wonder that cities all over the Persian and Byzantine empires opened their gates to the muslim liberators

What does this mean for the development of islamic civilization? All the non-muslim subjects - which included scholars, translators etc, were free to go about their business,

Quote:

In the 7th century Islam by force conquers two of the greatest civilizations to have existed; The Persians and the eastern half of the Roman empire. In the 8th century they create Baghdad in what was former Persian territory. How is this not swallowing civilizations that were already very advanced and building off of what others have developed?

The dhimmi paid the jizya which is a tax on non muslims, think of it like the protection money paid to the mafia.
The mafia and Islam are the only 2 cults with the death penalty for leaving in 2013/

Cyrus the great abolished slavery around 530BC only for it to return when those taazi camel jockeys invaded from Arabia and spread desolation and delusion known as Islam.
Cyrus the great outlawed slavery and Mohammad sold people into slavery to get money for weapons and horses.

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Yadda

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Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #110 - Mar 2^nd, 2013 at 7:25am

ian wrote on Feb 21^st, 2013 at 10:00pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:55pm:

Whether it is an ideology or religion doesn't matter as they both have a set of practices and a doctrine that is adhered to. It's a 7th century religion that is incompatible with liberal democracy. The insertion of race into the argument is done by the left to try and gain some traction over the existing arguments. They can't argue for Islam on cultural grounds, so they use the racist tag to demean opposition, as if this somehow makes their 7th century religion more acceptable to modern standards.

Nonsense, to start with, you dont even understand that the majority of the worlds Muslims do not live in the middle east and are as moderate as most Christians in western countries. All you are doing is spewing right wing rhetoric you probably heard on the talk back radio. If you cant distinguish between culture and religion then you shouldnt even be in this debate.

"....the majority of the worlds Muslims....are as moderate as most Christians..."

Not so.

In fact it is an outright lie, and your worthless assertion is utter 'nonsense'.

In fact in this world, a person cannot tell a BIGGER lie, than to state that a moslem can be a moderate, tolerant, peaceful person [and still remain an 'obedient' moslem].

THE TRUTH IS THAT;
A moslem chooses to be a moslem.
And a moslem is not a moslem, unless he/she obeys Allah/Koran.
And, no-one, who calls themselves a moslem, can be a 'moderate', or a [sincere and] peaceful person, towards disbelievers.

THE TRUTH IS THAT;
Allah/Koran encourages, and requires [obligates] all moslems to fight in Allah's cause, and to fight to enslave or murder those persons who do not believe as moslems believe [and that, is 'Allah's cause', i.e. to fight/'struggle' against disbelievers].
[If disbelievers are stronger than moslems, moslems are allowed to pretend to be the friends of disbelievers.]

Who is a moslem?
A moslem is both a deceiver, and a deceived person, whose sole [or soul?] purpose ['for being'] in life is to fight/'struggle' in Allah's cause.
Who is a moslem?
A moslem is a cursed soul who hates and rejects truth.

just for moslems....
What Every Christian Needs to Know About Islam (Full) goto 12m 30s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvytIrsfkZA

Google;

taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Google;

we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

i

+++

NO MOSLEM CAN BE A FRIEND OF DISBELIEVERS - ALLAH'S COMMAND

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196

MOSLEMS CANNOT BE THE FRIENDS OF DISBELIEVERS

ISLAM DOES NOT PERMIT MOSLEMS TO BE THE FRIENDS OF DISBELIEVERS

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

i.e.
In Koran 5.51, Allah declares, that a moslem who makes a sincere friendship with an disbelievers, or who truly gives their allegiance to an un-ISLAMIC community;
1/ makes himself/herself an enemy of Allah,
2/ makes himself/herself an 'unbeliever',
3/ becomes an 'apostate'/rebel, and,
4/ is worthy of death, at the hand of obedient moslems.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth Reply #111 - Mar 2^nd, 2013 at 9:34am Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 24^th, 2013 at 3:47pm: jizya is a tax on non muslims I thought it was the name of that Muslim cultural centre-cum-gay bathhouse they wanted to set up near the WTC site, 'Jizz Ya'. There was a whole debate about it in The New York Times.
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 98424	Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth Reply #112 - Mar 3^rd, 2013 at 1:45pm Now now, old chap, no need to vilify our gay brothers and sistas for fighting for their right to party, as it were. I thought you of all people would welcome such a tolerant stance towards our hommersexual brethren.
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