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Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat. (Read 11091 times)
greggerypeccary
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #135 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 1:32pm
 
rabbitoh07 wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 12:40pm:
Oh dear Greggery!  That is patheitic even by your standards!



No Bunny, it's just the truth.  However, you don't like the truth; we all know that. Hitler, gravity, lies, blah blah.

Anyway, here goes ...

Evidence exists.  I've always said that.  Check back over all of my posts in every single thread.  I've never denied that there is evidence to support the AGW hypothesis. Who would?!

What I HAVE said, is this: there's no credible reliable evidence to support the AGW hypothesis.

A big difference.

Here, this might help you:

"evidence: 1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place. Scientists weigh the evidence for and against a hypothesis."

In the first example, the broken window can certainly be used as evidence to help show that a burglary took place, however, simply calling it evidence doesn't mean it's the actual truth.  It turns out that the window was actually broken by a kid throwing a ball in the street (there's an eye witnesses to this).  The eye witness is credible and reliable. The mere assumption that there was a burglary, based purely on a broken window, is not credible and reliable: it's just an assumption; an educated guess. 

The same goes for your AGW hypothesis: there may indeed be plenty of evidence out there (there is!), but it's not necessarily the truth.  To find the truth we need some credible reliable evidence.  So far, the AGW alarmists have just been standing around looking at the broken glass on the ground and yelling "burglary, burglary".  What they need to do is see if there are any kids hiding around the corner.  However, they simply refuse to look.  Wink

Understand?  Too subtle for you?




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gold_medal
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #136 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm
 
rabbitoh07 wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 12:47pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 7:54am:
MET office are frauds

The MET lying to people
1. “… [F]or Mr. Rose to suggest that the latest global temperatures available show no warming in the last 15 years is entirely misleading.”

2. “What is absolutely clear is that we have continued to see a trend of warming …”.

3. “The linear trend from August 1997 (in the middle of an exceptionally strong El Niño) to August 2012 (coming at the tail end of a double-dip La Niña) is about 0.03 C°/decade …”.

4. “Each of the top ten warmest years have occurred in the last decade.”

5. “The models exhibit large variations in the rate of warming … so … such a period [15 years without warming] is not unexpected. It is not uncommon in the simulations for these periods to last up to 15 years, but longer periods are unlikely.”

Each of the assertions enumerated above was calculated to deceive. Each assertion is a lie. It is a lie told for financial advantage. M’lud, let me take each assertion in turn and briefly outline the evidence.

The METS BS exposed
1. The assertion that Mr Rose was “entirely misleading” to say there had been no global warming for 15 years is not just entirely misleading: it is entirely false. The least-squares linear-regression trend on the global temperature data is statistically indistinguishable from zero for 18 years (HadCRUt4), or 19 years (HadCRUt3), or even 23 years (RSS).

2. What is absolutely clear is that the assertion that “it is absolutely clear that we have continued to see a trend of warming” is absolutely, clearly false. The assertion is timescale-dependent. The Met Office justified it by noting that each of the last n decades was warmer than the decade that preceded it. A simple heuristic will demonstrate the dishonesty of this argument. Take a two-decade period. In each of years 1-2, the world warms by 0.05 Cº. In each of years 3-20, the world does not warm at all. Sure, the second decade will be warmer than the first. But global warming will still have stopped for 18 years. By making comparisons on timescales longer than the 18 years without warming, what we are seeing is long-past warming, not a continuing “trend of warming”.

3. In August 1997 global temperatures were not “in the middle of an exceptionally strong El Niño”: they were in transition, about halfway between La Niña (cooler than normal) and El Niño (warmer than normal) conditions. Likewise, temperatures in August 2012 were not “at the tail-end of a double-dip La Niña”: they were plainly again in transition between the La Niña of 2011/12 and the El Niño due in a year or two.

4. The Met Office’s assertion that each of the past ten years has been in the top ten is dataset-dependent. On most datasets, 1998 was the warmest year on the global instrumental record (which only began 160-odd years ago). Therefore, on these datasets, it cannot have been possible for each of the last ten years to be among the warmest on record.

5. Finally, the Met Office shoots itself in the foot by implicitly admitting that there has been a 15-year period without warming, saying that such a period is “not unexpected”. Yet that period was not “expected” by any of the dozens of lavishly-funded computer models that have been enriching their operators – including the Met Office, whose new computer cost gazillions and has the carbon footprint of a small town every time it is switched on. The NOAA’s State of the Climate report in 2008 said this: “Near-zero and even negative trends are common for intervals of a decade or less in the simulations, due to the model’s internal climate variability. The simulations rule out (at the 95% level) zero trends for intervals of 15 years or more, suggesting that an observed absence of warming of this duration is needed to create a discrepancy with the expected present-day warming rate.”

27 consecutive years of global temperatures above the long term average - and you still desperately cling to your silly Daily Mail article!!!

If the earth is not warming:
Why is global glacial mass balance decreasing?
Why are sea levels rising?
Why is the arctic ice cap decreasing?
Why has there been an increase in the frequency of extreme weather events?

What is the cause of these observed phenomena if - as you and David Rose claim - the earth is not warming?


'above the long term average' doesnt mean 'still increasing'. in fact, it can even be true if temperatures were dropping. do you have any edcuation in maths or statistics beyond year 9?
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gold_medal
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #137 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:03pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 1:32pm:
rabbitoh07 wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 12:40pm:
Oh dear Greggery!  That is patheitic even by your standards!



No Bunny, it's just the truth.  However, you don't like the truth; we all know that. Hitler, gravity, lies, blah blah.

Anyway, here goes ...

Evidence exists.  I've always said that.  Check back over all of my posts in every single thread.  I've never denied that there is evidence to support the AGW hypothesis. Who would?!

What I HAVE said, is this: there's no credible reliable evidence to support the AGW hypothesis.

A big difference.

Here, this might help you:

"evidence: 1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place. Scientists weigh the evidence for and against a hypothesis."

In the first example, the broken window can certainly be used as evidence to help show that a burglary took place, however, simply calling it evidence doesn't mean it's the actual truth.  It turns out that the window was actually broken by a kid throwing a ball in the street (there's an eye witnesses to this).  The eye witness is credible and reliable. The mere assumption that there was a burglary, based purely on a broken window, is not credible and reliable: it's just an assumption; an educated guess. 

The same goes for your AGW hypothesis: there may indeed be plenty of evidence out there (there is!), but it's not necessarily the truth.  To find the truth we need some credible reliable evidence.  So far, the AGW alarmists have just been standing around looking at the broken glass on the ground and yelling "burglary, burglary".  What they need to do is see if there are any kids hiding around the corner.  However, they simply refuse to look.  Wink

Understand?  Too subtle for you?






its a good analogy that he will either not understand or ignore.
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progressiveslol
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #138 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:10pm
 
Australia – was hot and is hot. So what? This is not an unusual heat-wave


The media are in overdrive, making out that “the extreme heat is the new normal” in Australia. The Great Australian Heatwave of January 2013 didn’t push the mercury above 50C at any weather station in Australia, yet it’s been 50C (122F) and hotter in many inland towns across Australia over the past century. See how many are in the late 1800′s and early to mid 1900′s. You can’t blame those high records on man made global warming.  [feel free to post some old records of your own and the source reference we can check and we will update the map]

...

more
http://joannenova.com.au/2013/01/australia-was-hot-and-is-hot-so-what-this-is-no...
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gold_medal
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #139 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:44pm
 
progressiveslol wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:10pm:
Australia – was hot and is hot. So what? This is not an unusual heat-wave


The media are in overdrive, making out that “the extreme heat is the new normal” in Australia. The Great Australian Heatwave of January 2013 didn’t push the mercury above 50C at any weather station in Australia, yet it’s been 50C (122F) and hotter in many inland towns across Australia over the past century. See how many are in the late 1800′s and early to mid 1900′s. You can’t blame those high records on man made global warming.  [feel free to post some old records of your own and the source reference we can check and we will update the map]

http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/graphs/maps/australia-map-heat-waves-5-web.gif

more
http://joannenova.com.au/2013/01/australia-was-hot-and-is-hot-so-what-this-is-no...


the usual hysterical response: blame CO2 for a hot spell in january... and not even a record one - just hotter than that last few years which have been cooler than before.
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MOTR
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #140 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 4:13pm
 
progressiveslol wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:10pm:
Australia – was hot and is hot. So what? This is not an unusual heat-wave


The media are in overdrive, making out that “the extreme heat is the new normal” in Australia. The Great Australian Heatwave of January 2013 didn’t push the mercury above 50C at any weather station in Australia, yet it’s been 50C (122F) and hotter in many inland towns across Australia over the past century. See how many are in the late 1800′s and early to mid 1900′s. You can’t blame those high records on man made global warming.  [feel free to post some old records of your own and the source reference we can check and we will update the map]

http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/graphs/maps/australia-map-heat-waves-5-web.gif

more
http://joannenova.com.au/2013/01/australia-was-hot-and-is-hot-so-what-this-is-no...


And this is how the deniers cherry pick data. Just think of the thousands of places in Australia that's the best they could do.

Never has the propagandist nature of Nova's blog been so aptly exposed. Thanks, progs.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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cods
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #141 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 4:24pm
 
MOTR wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 4:13pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:10pm:
Australia – was hot and is hot. So what? This is not an unusual heat-wave


The media are in overdrive, making out that “the extreme heat is the new normal” in Australia. The Great Australian Heatwave of January 2013 didn’t push the mercury above 50C at any weather station in Australia, yet it’s been 50C (122F) and hotter in many inland towns across Australia over the past century. See how many are in the late 1800′s and early to mid 1900′s. You can’t blame those high records on man made global warming.  [feel free to post some old records of your own and the source reference we can check and we will update the map]

http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/graphs/maps/australia-map-heat-waves-5-web.gif

more
http://joannenova.com.au/2013/01/australia-was-hot-and-is-hot-so-what-this-is-no...


And this is how the deniers cherry pick data. Just think of the thousands of places in Australia that's the best they could do.

Never has the propagandist nature of Nova's blog been so aptly exposed. Thanks, progs.




me thinks its you that is cherry picking...and you denier the evidence..Flannery picked on Western Sydney.. barren burnt to a crisp...and all the dams will be dry...never to see rain again...

not only propaganda plus cheery picking.. but down right.rubbish...

dont forget Al Gores prophesy.... the world will end by 2013..
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gold_medal
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #142 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 4:44pm
 
MOTR wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 4:13pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:10pm:
Australia – was hot and is hot. So what? This is not an unusual heat-wave


The media are in overdrive, making out that “the extreme heat is the new normal” in Australia. The Great Australian Heatwave of January 2013 didn’t push the mercury above 50C at any weather station in Australia, yet it’s been 50C (122F) and hotter in many inland towns across Australia over the past century. See how many are in the late 1800′s and early to mid 1900′s. You can’t blame those high records on man made global warming.  [feel free to post some old records of your own and the source reference we can check and we will update the map]

http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/graphs/maps/australia-map-heat-waves-5-web.gif

more
http://joannenova.com.au/2013/01/australia-was-hot-and-is-hot-so-what-this-is-no...


And this is how the deniers cherry pick data. Just think of the thousands of places in Australia that's the best they could do.

Never has the propagandist nature of Nova's blog been so aptly exposed. Thanks, progs.


the point being aptly made is that heatwaves in australia are hardly new nor is this one particularly record-breaking. YOU are the one that cherry-picks.
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progressiveslol
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #143 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 5:49pm
 
The BOM is as much full of BS as the MET. Lets just make up something new and call it a record.

The latest claim is Australia’s hottest day in history on 7 January, a BoM declaration that seems to be based on a whole new metric of daily temperature records that estimates national averages in past decades.

Who’s heard of the Australian daily average maximum based on the estimated temperatures from all of the BoM’s weather stations? If you can find past official records of this metric that is grid weighted using 700 to 800 stations, do tell us
. The record is made by averaging and grid weighting maxima across the entire continent each day.

Can we expect this every day in the future? Does it make the ACORN dataset obsolete? Will the BoM trumpet this daily temperature when cold fronts roll through? Will the source data be inviolate once the daily statistic is published because subsequent correction or homogenisation of earlier daily data will render the statistic no longer reproducible?

These questions must be asked because only the BoM can perform the calculation on a daily basis – the public must wait up to a year in some cases for the data to appear, and the BoM provides no simple access to all that data.

The BoM is populated with many very competent people but the publication of this 7 January record statistic cannot be checked in any way by the general public, even though one of the objectives of ACORN was to improve the transparency of the BoM’s activities.

Nobody is quite sure how these new calculations work, especially since some of the stations that appear to be included were relocated or simply didn’t exist early or at all in the 20th century. Our independent research team is working to try to figure it out right now. Expect an update in the next day or two. Watch this space.


http://joannenova.com.au/2013/01/australia-was-hot-and-is-hot-so-what-this-is-no...
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adelcrow
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #144 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 5:54pm
 
Sooooo what are you fellas gonna do when the Libs get in and have the same targets of reducing green house gases?
Look up the Lib web site..its their policy  Grin
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Go the Bunnies
 
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rabbitoh07
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #145 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 5:55pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 1:32pm:
[

Evidence exists.  I've always said that.  Check back over all of my posts in every single thread.  I've never denied that there is evidence to support the AGW hypothesis. Who would?!

What I HAVE said, is this: there's no credible reliable evidence to support the AGW hypothesis.

But what you cannot tell us is why you think the evidence is neither credible nor reliable.

Why is that Greggery?

Is it just a matter of faith for you?

Tell us which bit of evidence you do not find credible or reliable.

Be specific.
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progressiveslol
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #146 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 5:56pm
 
adelcrow wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 5:54pm:
Sooooo what are you fellas gonna do when the Libs get in and have the same targets of reducing green house gases?
Look up the Lib web site..its their policy  Grin

Do the 5% and kick kyoto in the A. The kick labor in the A for a decade.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #147 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 5:58pm
 
adelcrow wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 5:54pm:
Sooooo what are you fellas gonna do when the Libs get in and have the same targets of reducing green house gases?
Look up the Lib web site..its their policy  Grin



The Libs have a policy?!

Noooooooo    Huh
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rabbitoh07
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #148 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 6:01pm
 
gold_medal wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm:
'above the long term average' doesnt mean 'still increasing'.

Actually, it does.  That is exactly what it means.

gold_medal wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm:
in fact, it can even be true if temperatures were dropping.

27 consecutive years of temperatures above the long term average does not mean temperatures are dropping.  No matter what David Rose of the Daily Mail tells you
gold_medal wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm:
do you have any edcuation in maths or statistics beyond year 9?

Yes.  Yes I do.
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progressiveslol
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Re: Climate-Change Denial Feels The Heat.
Reply #149 - Jan 15th, 2013 at 6:04pm
 
rabbitoh07 wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 6:01pm:
gold_medal wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm:
'above the long term average' doesnt mean 'still increasing'.

Actually, it does.  That is exactly what it means.

gold_medal wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm:
in fact, it can even be true if temperatures were dropping.

27 consecutive years of temperatures above the long term average does not mean temperatures are dropping.  No matter what David Rose of the Daily Mail tells you
gold_medal wrote on Jan 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm:
do you have any edcuation in maths or statistics beyond year 9?

Yes.  Yes I do.

You got ripped off.
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