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Another fatwa calling for death penalty (Read 5430 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: Another fatwa calling for death penalty
Reply #15 - Dec 8th, 2012 at 10:03am
 
Yadda wrote on Dec 8th, 2012 at 9:29am:
A moslem will portray their argument as being a moral [virtuous] argument/position, when in fact the truth is, that that very same moslem, is aware that they are mis-representing the morality of their argument [through their own use of deceit].


right, so just to be clear - in Yadda world, muslims spend half their time proudly demonstrating to the world that they are justified in killing critics of islam and the prophet - through the example of their prophet, and half their time trying to convince the world that those very prophetic examples are in fact not reflective of the true islam.

I should hand it to you Yadda - your position is completely fool-proof - if muslims are shown to be rioting and calling for the beheading of critics, its merely muslims "showing their true colours" - but when they go the other way and try and convince the world that such rioting is in fact NOT sanctioned by islam, they are merely being duplicitous. So there is literally nothing muslims can do to redeem themselves. Brilliant.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Another fatwa calling for death penalty
Reply #16 - Dec 8th, 2012 at 7:16pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 8th, 2012 at 10:03am:
Yadda wrote on Dec 8th, 2012 at 9:29am:
A moslem will portray their argument as being a moral [virtuous] argument/position, when in fact the truth is, that that very same moslem, is aware that they are mis-representing the morality of their argument [through their own use of deceit].


right, so just to be clear - in Yadda world, muslims spend half their time proudly demonstrating to the world that they are justified in killing critics of islam and the prophet - through the example of their prophet, and half their time trying to convince the world that those very prophetic examples are in fact not reflective of the true islam.

I should hand it to you Yadda - your position is completely fool-proof - if muslims are shown to be rioting and calling for the beheading of critics, its merely muslims "showing their true colours" - but when they go the other way and try and convince the world that such rioting is in fact NOT sanctioned by islam, they are merely being duplicitous. So there is literally nothing muslims can do to redeem themselves. Brilliant.





gandalf,

And your argument is ???

That pious and righteous moslems must be permitted to riot, and call for the beheading of critics of ISLAM ?






AND;

Quote:
So there is literally nothing muslims can do to redeem themselves.


This is like that light globe question, isn't it ?

"How many moslems does it take....."


gandalf,

Q.
How can we convince moslems that behaving with intimidation and violence, and with extreme intolerance towards people who don't believe what they believe,
.....will only be counter productive to social harmony when moslems CHOOSE to live among people who don't believe what they believe ?

A.
We cannot.


Why so ?

Because moslems know that they are pious and righteous and on the correct path.

And moslems know that everyone who doesn't believe what they believe, are just the 'grist for the mill' and must suffer the consequences [SO SUCK IT UP INFIDELS!!!].




+++

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

n.b.
"...those who reject Faith"........ [are] "the friends of Satan:.."


"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216
N.B. Allah himself, declares that fighting against the 'unbelievers' is a 'religious' obligation for every moslem.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Another fatwa calling for death penalty
Reply #17 - Dec 8th, 2012 at 8:40pm
 
Yadda wrote on Dec 8th, 2012 at 7:16pm:
gandalf,

And your argument is ???

That pious and righteous moslems must be permitted to riot, and call for the beheading of critics of ISLAM ?


Still a little hard for you to grasp? Maybe if you weren't so obsessed with misquoting the quran and spamming each and every post with historically unverified biographical accounts of the prophet, you might have a better chance.

But to put it REALLY simply for you...

1. you view muslims as rioting and murderous thugs - and they are like this because they are merely following the example of the prophet and the orders given to them in the quran. Furthermore, they actively promote this behaviour as being essential to being a good muslim.

2. Paradoxically, while promoting and justifying the above behaviour, they somehow also try and discredit and reject the accounts that portray Mohammad as displaying the above mentioned qualities (ie murderer and terrorist) - and inexplicably attempt to paint the prophet as tolerant and opposed to the same thugish behaviour described above.

So what are we yadda? 1 or 2? We can't be both - if we're 1, then we're terrorists, and proud of it - and we certainly wouldn't want to promote anything other than a terrorist-loving prophet. But if its 2, then we are presumably arguing for a tolerant and peaceful islam - and would reject the behaviour described in 1.

Hint: this is not a debate about how big a liars muslims are - the point is if they hold both 1 and 2, they are defeating their own arguments. Muslims may be lying or being deceptive, but it only works if they are deceptive about one of them - attempting both doesn't work.
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« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2012 at 8:49pm by polite_gandalf »  

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Another fatwa calling for death penalty
Reply #18 - Dec 9th, 2012 at 10:17pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 8th, 2012 at 8:40pm:
Yadda wrote on Dec 8th, 2012 at 7:16pm:
gandalf,

And your argument is ???

That pious and righteous moslems must be permitted to riot, and call for the beheading of critics of ISLAM ?


Still a little hard for you to grasp? Maybe if you weren't so obsessed with
misquoting the quran
and spamming each and every post with
historically unverified biographical accounts
of the prophet, you might have a better chance.



I quote ISLAMIC historic sources, but i am a hateful person who misrepresents ISLAM and moslems, because NOW you tell me! that those ISLAMIC historic sources are
'historically unverified biographical accounts'
.igandalf....
Quote:
But to put it REALLY simply for you...

1. you view muslims as rioting and murderous thugs - and they are like this because they are merely following the example of the prophet and the orders given to them in the quran. Furthermore, they actively promote this behaviour as being essential to being a good muslim.




"And fight them until.....religion is for Allah."

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,"


002.193
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors. igandalf....
Quote:
2. Paradoxically, while promoting and justifying the above behaviour, they somehow also try and discredit and reject the accounts that portray Mohammad as displaying the above mentioned qualities (ie murderer and terrorist) - and inexplicably attempt to paint the prophet as tolerant and opposed to the same thugish behaviour described above.

So what are we yadda? 1 or 2? We can't be both - if we're 1, then we're terrorists, and proud of it - and we certainly wouldn't want to promote anything other than a terrorist-loving prophet. But if its 2, then we are presumably arguing for a tolerant and peaceful islam - and would reject the behaviour described in 1.

Hint: this is not a debate about how big a liars muslims are - the point is if they hold both 1 and 2, they are defeating their own arguments. Muslims may be lying or being deceptive, but it only works if they are deceptive about one of them - attempting both doesn't work.


gandalf,

Was Mohammed a benefactor of mankind, a benefactor to the people of his age ?

Is that your argument ?


"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."

hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196


And there i [Yadda] go again!!! ...quoting those
>> ISLAMIC <<
'historically unverified biographical accounts'
.




+++


gandalf,

When it all comes down to the end of the line in a debate on morality [...as far as moslems are concerned];

It is the moslems who are ALWAYS the correct/righteous people.

And it is the infidels that are ALWAYS in error.





+++

'Archimedes2' - speaking of Robert Spencer, @ Jihad Watch,
about how Jihadists and apologists for ISLAM, respond to his constant criticism of ISLAM...

Quote:
"So many things could be added. I recall the nasty, nasty criticism
that you are only masquerading as a christian, but you're really a Jew!
(Boy, they sure know how to hit below the belt, don't they? Smiley )
And a Zionist to boot!

And didn't one fellow, pinned down by references to authoritative islamic sources
but unwilling to surrender his point, accuse you of having demonic zionist magical powers
and using them to alter the Koran and Hadith?
Wow. That's gotta be #101 on the list!

....The argument goes:
1. Spencer is criticizing Islam (which they would posit as self-evident);
2. Ergo, all his statements are wrong and invalid. Case closed.



http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/05/refutin-on-a-friday-afternoon.html#comment-354...


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Another fatwa calling for death penalty
Reply #19 - Dec 9th, 2012 at 11:28pm
 
nevermind Yadda. Addressing an actual argument is apparently too much for you.

As you were - continue on with your spamming...
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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ItsAllAboutMe
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Re: Another fatwa calling for death penalty
Reply #20 - Dec 13th, 2012 at 11:45am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9th, 2012 at 11:28pm:
nevermind Yadda. Addressing an actual argument is apparently too much for you.

As you were - continue on with your spamming...


Yadda answers you in precise detail and you call him a spammer... lol..you are right up his street,you are bread and butter to him.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Another fatwa calling for death penalty
Reply #21 - Dec 13th, 2012 at 12:06pm
 
Let me break it down for you ItsAllAboutMe...

My argument is about the logical inconsistency of Yadda's argument - *NOT* whether or not the message of islam is right or wrong.

And to repeat this logical inconsistency once again, he posts pictures of bloodthirsty rioters demanding the blood of "infidels" - since they are merely proudly carrying out the example of the prophet, while on the other hand claims that muslims try to be deceptive by hiding the truth of the prophet (ie by attempting to refute the authenticity of accounts that portray the prophet as intolerant and bloodthirsty).

The point is, such contradictory behaviour is nonsensical from Yadda's own point of view. If muslims are bloodthirsty and proud, then they wouldn't be trying to refute the bloodthirsty accounts of the prophet.

Thus when Yadda can only respond with:

Yadda wrote on Dec 9th, 2012 at 10:17pm:
gandalf,

Was Mohammed a benefactor of mankind, a benefactor to the people of his age ?

Is that your argument ?


He clearly cannot grasp the point, and it is therefore futile to carry on.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Another fatwa calling for death penalty
Reply #22 - Dec 14th, 2012 at 9:49pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 1st, 2012 at 10:13pm:
'Innocence of Muslims' filmmaker sentenced to death in Egypt

http://www.theage.com.au/world/innocence-of-muslims-filmmaker-sentenced-to-death-in-egypt-20121129-2ahvx.html#ixzz2DnlP3IQI

The Californian man behind the Innocence of Muslims online movie that triggered violence in the Middle East was sentenced to death on Wednesday in absentia in an Egyptian court.

Mark Basseley Youssef was among the seven Egyptian Coptic Christians and a Florida-based American pastor sentenced on charges linked to the low-budget, anti-Islam film.

The case was seen as largely symbolic because the defendants, most of whom live in the United States, are all outside Egypt and unlikely to ever serve the sentences.

The charges were brought in September during a wave of public outrage in Egypt over the amateur film, which was produced by Youssef, who lived in Cerritos, California.
Advertisement

Parts of Innocence of Muslims were posted online, and the movie portrays the Prophet Muhammad as a fraud and womaniser.

Egypt's official news agency said the court found the defendants guilty of harming national unity, insulting and publicly attacking Islam and spreading false information — charges that carry the death sentence.



Religion will destroy our world.
We need a war against religion.
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