Sounds far fetched ?? The system we have now is total bullshit and certainly doesn't serve the majority !!

There is no need for unemployment benefits as there will be lots of jobs

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 11:07am:


But the problem is, there won't be lots of jobs.  We have supposedly low levels of unemployment, but mostly thanks to the vast numbers of non-productive busy work positions.  When 1 farmer can produce enough food to feed 1000 people, it creates a massive imbalance.  What do the other 999 people do with the time they would have dedicated to acquiring food?  Nothing...but if they don't have something 'offical' to do, they'll get bored and raise hell.  Thus, paper shuffling.

This would work well in a tribal or village setting, but it doesn't transfer so well to large populations.  A nation of millions carries a lot of passengers and it will eventually collapse under it's own weight unless checked.
Then it's a trade off - would you still pursue this model of utopia knowing that millions need to be culled in order to make it work?  Stalin and Mao thought so - nearly 100 million killed between them - and still their models failed. 

... wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 11:39am:


I like how Germany does things. German engineering companies won't employ accountants etc unless they have an engineering background. The results speak for themselves. They are second biggest industrial nation in the world and they manufacture and export the best  equipment including cars etc. You don't get this by putting an MBA dickead in charge of things and then sacking people when things go wrong

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 11:45am:


Most people like how the germans do things.  The problem is, not everyone is german, and so aren't inclined to do as the germans do.  How do you integrate a somalian into the german model? 

... wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 11:48am:


That's all part of the education system which is failing people here. If you fix up the education system then you fix up the country

So you think you can turn a somalian into a german through education? 
If there are any geneticists in your utopia, they'll tell you to quit dreaming. 

... wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 12:22pm:


They have found that it's the environment and not the race that has the most influence on peoples upbringing.

Researchers from King's College London studied 45 childhood characteristics in 6,759 pairs of identical and non-identical twins across the UK, to determine whether their genes or their environment was more important.

A new series of "nature-nurture" maps produced by the team revealed that some areas are "environmental hotspots" for particular traits, but in other places the same attribute is mainly governed by genetics.

For example, across most of the country 60 per cent of the variation in children's behaviour at school - whether they were unruly or not - was down to their genes.

If social behavior were mostly shaped by ecology, then related species living in different environments should display a variety of social structures. But the Oxford biologists — Susanne Shultz, Christopher Opie and Quentin Atkinson — found the opposite was true: Primate species tended to have the same social structure as their close relatives, regardless of how and where they live.

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 12:13pm:



If I lived in your socialist utopia, i would breed unicorns and sell them.

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 1:00pm:



Marxist Socialism certainly applies to your little scenario, even if you aren't bright enough to realise this.


You will never hear me complaining about our current capitalist system as it has been applied to Australia, but then I have no reason to constantly whinge about everything and everyone.

I have a nice home and cool car and I can even afford to refuel it, how's your economic situation. 

One of us is being screwed by the establishment and it ain't me.

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 11:45am:



Sounds like utter horse sh1t to me.

Why would an engineering firm require their accountant  to have an engineering degree just to do there accounts?

But if you have any reputable evidence Im willing to look at it.

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 11:45am:



Sounds like utter horse sh1t to me.

Why would an engineering firm require their accountant  to have an engineering degree just to do there accounts?

But if you have any reputable evidence Im willing to look at it.

Vorsprung durch manufacturing - what can the UK learn from Germany? - Tom Lawton

Manufacturing has been generating very positive headlines recently with the dawning realisation of politicians of all parties that the UK needs a vibrant and growing manufacturing sector as part of a balanced economy that can deliver export lead growth. With manufacturing now languishing at around 13% of UK GDP it is sometimes difficult to believe that the UK was a manufacturing superpower from the time of industrial revolution through to the 1960s – and then began its long and seemingly unstoppable decline. But at the same time as UK manufacturing started to lose its edge, Germany started to develop a powerhouse manufacturing sector that is still delivering massive benefits to the German economy today.

Germany is the world's fourth largest economy, fourth largest manufacturer (manufacturing still accounts for around 20% of GDP and is approximately twice the size of UK manufacturing GDP) and second largest exporter. Many of its companies, products and brands are world leaders and it has a reputation for quality that helps build the "made in Germany" brand and obtain a premium price for its products. Germany also manages to be successful as a manufacturing economy despite its high labour and infrastructure costs, its high levels of unionisation, the required involvement of workforce representatives in management strategy and decisions in larger companies and its high levels of regulation. Finally it has developed a "mittelstand" of medium sized manufacturing companies which provide a huge drive to the manufacturing sector and the economy as a whole.

Germany is also managing to maintain its success in the light of competition from China and the other emerging economies. According to UN Data, manufacturing output (by value) increased by 57% in the UK between 1990 and 2008 but in Germany it increased by 75%. Even with China's astronomical rise as a global manufacturer, Germany's share of output amongst the world's leading manufacturers has still remained above 10% - the UK has slumped to just 4.3%. It has to be said that many of the fundamental issues faced by Germany in the last 50 years around costs and global competition are the same or very similar to the issues faced by the UK.

So, why has the manufacturing sector in Germany performed so much better than the manufacturing sector UK?

Clearly there are many factors that influenced the decline of manufacturing in the UK and the growth of manufacturing in Germany and this short article cannot cover all the complexities and issues.  However, we summarise below five, often inter-related, factors that seemed to have been fundamental in the building and maintaining of a vibrant manufacturing sector in Germany.

1. Strong national commitment to manufacturing:
Successive German governments have been clear on and consistent in their support for the manufacturing sector and this has helped build the framework that has provided both national champions with a global footprint and the mittelstand. As part of this support the German government has provided or facilitated incentives and subsidies for manufacturing with a focus on the development of key sectors. The obvious example being the massive growth of the automotive sector and world leading vehicle brands in Germany compared to the relative decline of automotive in the UK. To support the sector there are strong connections between industry and Universities and this has helped manufacturers develop world leading processes and products. The German system of research institutes stems back to the Kaiser Wilhelm institutes of the 19th century and continues today. Perhaps because of the success of the sector engineering is recognised as one of the leading career options and company CEOs tend to be engineers rather than finance trained people.

2. Focus on advanced engineering:
As noted above, there are long standing connections to the education system that provides research and innovation to the sector and also provides a consistent pool of highly qualified engineers as well as an involved and committed workforce. Germany has a superb reputation in engineering and is renowned worldwide for the quality of its products. This has been supported by the fact that savings are disproportionately channelled (via Germany's bank-dominated system of long term capital) into supporting advanced manufacturing. Over the last half century, each succeeding recession has left many US and UK manufacturers more financially exposed and needing to reduce costs, labour and investment. Whilst the same conditions have applied in Germany the longer term view has enabled German manufacturers to better maintain their levels of investment and they have consistently increased their market share in advanced manufacturing.

3. Availability of bank funding:
The stock market and private equity is not as important in Germany as it has been in the US and the UK and a large element of the corporate funding required in Germany is delivered through the banking system. This funding, particularly to the mittelstand, is often provided through the Hausbank system where companies have a long-standing, largely exclusive banking arrangements with one-main bank that is often locally based and understands and supports the local market and economy. The banking system in Germany has been more understanding and supportive of the long term nature of the sector and the requirement for longer term funding. One of the differences in the German economic model seems to be the use of debit cards rather than credit cards which gives a better profile for bank funding and savings – giving the banks the ability to invest. Finally as manufacturing is a much more highly regarded sector in Germany banks (and other funders) have been more inclined to be supportive of what is a key sector in the economy.

4. Employee "voice" and loyalty:
German employees enjoy a high rate of pay and a high level of job security which seems to be part of the national culture. In times of stress German companies will try to use work-sharing (kuzarbeit) rather than making significant job cuts which in turn helps maintain loyalty and all important skills within the workforce. Union influence is still significant within the private sector in Germany and in larger companies half of all seats on supervisory boards are reserved for employee representatives - and through this the workforce enjoys considerable veto power. However, the workforce appears to exercise their power responsibly and have been a key part of the success of the sector.

5. More effective manufacturing processes:
As noted manufacturing (engineering in particular) is regarded as a valued occupation and helps drive the education system at school and university level. German manufacturing companies tend to be lead by engineers, and combined with the strong connections to Universities, there is an inbuilt understanding of how to make manufacturing processes deliver quality and efficiency. The support from the banking system has enabled a high investment in machinery and technology which has helped offset the higher cost of labour and infrastructure. In addition German manufacturers were early users of low cost economies to help them maintain their competitive edge. In recent years German companies have become significant global players and were early investors in China. For example Volkswagen established operations in China more than 25 years ago and became very successful very quickly. It is still the largest foreign car assembler in China with something like an 18% market share.

I stand corrected. It's their CEO's !!

company CEOs tend to be engineers rather than finance trained people.

BigOl64 wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 11:56am:



THE OP SEEMS TO BE DESCRIBING A PARTICULARLY EFFICIENT ORGANISATION THAT DOESN'T DEAL WITH TIME-WASTERS AND AS A MATTER OF HABIT KILLS MANY BIRDS WITH ONE STONE!

A brand new state in Australia which is devoid of useless and non productive overpaid word smiths, MBA dickheads, lawyers, accountants, real estate maggots or any other bottom feeding parasite etc. Anyone who is non productive is not welcome in this state or are paid very little !! You create a system which rewards and promotes excellence and discourages non productive industries.

We need people who have an entrepreneurial spirit and whose talents are respected and rewarded. Science and engineering disciplines are well respected and remunerated accordingly. A state where education is important. None of this bullshit of paying a phD in science only 60K per year whilst some MBA dickhead gets 200K or more for writing a bit of sh.t on a bit of paper Educated people in the right disciplines can then create useful things which then creates further employment in manufacturing etc !!

Anyone who is interested in creating things whether it be right at the top in the design process or simply on an assembly line in a factory is welcome. Businesses are run as a co-op to give more purpose to workers lives instead of just being a cog in a chain looking at the CEO MBA dickheads lining their pockets with lottery wins each year whilst being rewarded more for retrenching people

Property ponzi schemes and bubbles are discouraged and community housing is provided. Each person can only own one house to live in. Property hoarding and speculation is  outlawed whilst investment in new ideas and things which can help people is encouraged including low cost and energy efficient housing !!

Politicians have to be an authority in their own portfolio. There is no need for unemployment benefits as there will be lots of jobs and people will want to work to build up a more equitable society that doesn't just favour the elite !!

Sounds far fetched ?? The system we have now is total bullshit and certainly doesn't serve the majority !!

Quantum wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 9:49pm:


And remember you gave people financial advice to buy investment properties when you wouldn't buy one yourself !!

It's not good to see you back here again longweekend trolling as usual

Now when are they going to get rid of you permanently !!

And btw there is nothing Utopian about what I have said. It is just a matter of rearranging your priorities just like Germany has done. That's why their cars are exported all over the world !! You don't get this by putting wordsmiths in charge of everything like they are here

Quantum wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 9:55am:


Yes longweekend. You denied it when you were gold_medal and now you are doing it all over again. It didn't take long for you to blow your cover again

As for German cars - yes the car manufacturers owned by Germans and not some US scam artist.  Whether you think they are good or not is irrelevant. The fact is people all over the world are paying a premium to own them. Can't say the same about the non existant all-Australian cars can you

You three really have an obsession with longweekend. You see him everywhere even when he has left the forum. It is amazing how long the constant accusation of socks can continue on this place.

I have spot constantly saying I am FD (which pansi agrees with)
I have nail saying I am longweekend (which pansi also agrees with)
And top troll magpie saying that I am soron (which spot also agrees with)

For me to be all these people, would require all these people to also be the same person. How the hell would someone be able to do all these posts? The most likely answer is you are all retards who resort to sock accusations to avoid having to actually discuss anything.

Dont feel bad mate, Ive had Spot say Im FD.

Quantum wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 9:10am:


It's funny that when you were gold_medal you said exactly the same thing

yep just like longweekend you have to have the last say

Nail,
Quote:


Hi Nail,
Yes - they are everywhere now in business.
They always know more than everyone else - or think they do -
they don't consult others -
they join companies & make everyone's life a misery -
people get sacked who have done nothing wrong -
good companies are destroyed by them.

They produce nothing & suck the life blood out of companies.
MBA dickheads arrogantly assume they know something about business that the rest of us don't.

bludger wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 9:55pm:


Or maybe give all of the men the snip....