Australian Politics Forum - Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax

John Smith

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Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax
Reply #75 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 9:51am

Bertram wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 9:45am:

what's the record investment in renewables? not wind i hope.
solar? hydro?

Hopefully a bit of everything .. we aren't going to develop any of them until you put money into them .. sure, some aren't perfect , but put money into them, develop them, change them and the end product will be vastly different to todays options.... look at the first pc? what if someone decided it was cheaper to pay 5 accountants than it was to build a computer that was the size of a room with very limited processing power ... where would we be today?

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Bertram

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Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax
Reply #76 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 10:09am

good point. but there would be a lot more money to invest if people weren't compensated but were made to be mindful of their non-renewable energy use.
it's like if there is a $100 fine for speeding but everyone who is speeding gets compensated but car manufacturers have to pay extra tax for making faster cars. it's a bit silly.

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Upton Sinclair

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Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax
Reply #77 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 2:42pm

Bertram wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 10:09am:

good point. but there would be a lot more money to invest if people weren't compensated but were made to be mindful of their non-renewable energy use.
it's like if there is a $100 fine for speeding but everyone who is speeding gets compensated but car manufacturers have to pay extra tax for making faster cars. it's a bit silly.

It's not supposed to change consumer behaviour, that's why consumers don't pay the tax, it is designed to change the behaviour of the 500 highest polluting companies who DO pay the tax.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax
Reply #78 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:07pm

Upton Sinclair wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 2:42pm:

Bertram wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 10:09am:

good point. but there would be a lot more money to invest if people weren't compensated but were made to be mindful of their non-renewable energy use.
it's like if there is a $100 fine for speeding but everyone who is speeding gets compensated but car manufacturers have to pay extra tax for making faster cars. it's a bit silly.

It's not supposed to change consumer behaviour, that's why consumers don't pay the tax, it is designed to change the behaviour of the 500 highest polluting companies who DO pay the tax.

Yet they pass on the cost so it doesnt change their behaviour either.

SOB

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Upton Sinclair Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 496	Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax Reply #79 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:45pm double post
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Upton Sinclair Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 496	Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax Reply #80 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:49pm Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:07pm: Yet they pass on the cost so it doesnt change their behaviour either. SOB A huge body of economic modelling disagrees with your conclusion.
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax
Reply #81 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:56pm

Upton Sinclair wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:49pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Yet they pass on the cost so it doesnt change their behaviour either.

SOB

A huge body of economic modelling disagrees with your conclusion.

Well if i was one of those companies and i was able to pass on the costs i would have no incentive to change my ways.

SOB

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Upton Sinclair

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Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax
Reply #82 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 4:22pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:56pm:

Well if i was one of those companies and i was able to pass on the costs i would have no incentive to change my ways.

SOB

I'll take evidence over common-sense assumptions any day of the week.

As a business you've always got an incentive to cut costs, if you can make a saving on your tax by investing in ways to reduce the impost. And it's not as easy as just passing on the cost, you can only pass on so much before you consumer goes to your competitor who has a vested interest in passing on as little of the cost as possible

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Bertram

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Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax
Reply #83 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 5:59pm

i don't get it. the government is paying coal fired power stations compensation. but la trobe uni, which generates its own power, is taxed as a polluter.

Quote:

The program was meant to shut down about 2000 megawatts of highly emissions-intensive generation capacity by 2020.

Negotiations involved Hazelwood, Yallourn and Energy Brix power stations in Victoria, as well as Playford in South Australia and Collinsville in Queensland.

The Australian Conservation Foundation said it was a ‘‘central plank’’ of Labor’s carbon price regime.
‘‘If these dirty old clunkers are not shut down the companies that own them certainly don’t deserve $5.5 billion in handouts from the taxpayer for nothing,’’ foundation spokesman Tony Mohr said in a statement.

Four stations in Victoria’s Latrobe Valley mid-year received the lion’s share of $1 billion to help coal-fired generators cope with the carbon tax.

Hazelwood received $266 million and Yallourn pocketed $257 million in the first tranche of assistance from the $5.5 billion energy security fund.

Opposition climate action spokesman Greg Hunt says the government had ‘‘contradictory funds’’ - one to shut down power stations and another to help them remain viable.

‘‘It is no wonder the scheme collapsed,’’ he said in a statement.

Read more: http://www.watoday.com.au/environment/gillard-government-ditches-plan-to-shut-dirty-power-plants-20120905-25eg4.html#ixzz27HGPeSZL

on La Trobe uni:
http://www.wakeup2thelies.com/2012/05/16/la-trobe-university-forced-to-pay-the-c...

the big coal-based power stations get compensation, a university using natural gas to produce its own power gets taxed as a 'a big polluter'.

does this make sense? not to me.

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Gist

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Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax
Reply #84 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 6:08pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:56pm:

Upton Sinclair wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:49pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Yet they pass on the cost so it doesnt change their behaviour either.

SOB

A huge body of economic modelling disagrees with your conclusion.

Well if i was one of those companies and i was able to pass on the costs i would have no incentive to change my ways.

SOB

Of course you do Spot. If you reduce your costs, the money saved goes to PROFIT. Which is what you're in business for. So they have a very big incentive to find ways to cut their tax bill. Every big business is always looking for ways to reduce their expenses for this very reason.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax Reply #85 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 9:52pm go and look at your energy provider's website and look at their charges your are a farce upton
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philperth2010 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21097 Perth Gender:	Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax Reply #86 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 10:10pm When companies change to renewable energy they can sell the surplus carbon credits.....Until they reduce emissions they continue paying for their carbon output.....It makes economic sense to reduce emissions reduce costs and sell the credits!!!
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax
Reply #87 - Sep 24^th, 2012 at 4:30am

Gist wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 6:08pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:56pm:

Upton Sinclair wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:49pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Yet they pass on the cost so it doesnt change their behaviour either.

SOB

A huge body of economic modelling disagrees with your conclusion.

Well if i was one of those companies and i was able to pass on the costs i would have no incentive to change my ways.

SOB

Of course you do Spot. If you reduce your costs, the money saved goes to PROFIT. Which is what you're in business for. So they have a very big incentive to find ways to cut their tax bill. Every big business is always looking for ways to reduce their expenses for this very reason.

Ahh so they can gouge us further by making more profit by not taking the inflated prices off when they counteract them. Okay I see now.

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
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Upton Sinclair

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Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax
Reply #88 - Sep 24^th, 2012 at 9:51am

Maqqa wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 9:52pm:

go and look at your energy provider's website and look at their charges

your are a farce upton

No, the baseless fearmongering campaign you engaged in was a farce. The carbon tax has had zero inflationary impact in the economy so far. Less like a wrecking ball, more like a conker.

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Upton Sinclair Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 496	Re: Got my first leccy bill since the Carbon Tax Reply #89 - Sep 24^th, 2012 at 9:53am Bertram wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 5:59pm: on La Trobe uni: http://www.wakeup2thelies.com/2012/05/16/la-trobe-university-forced-to-pay-the-c... WakeUp2TheLies.com? sounds like a reputable and balanced source of information
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