Australian Politics Forum - why attacking Abbott won't work

Maqqa

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why attacking Abbott won't work
Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:47pm

We've seen the ALP attacking Abbott for 18 months now. It has neither significantly improved or worsened his preferred PM numbers

Every time the left attack Abbott for lying - it's just another opportunity for him to remind Australia of the "There will be no carbon tax...." line

The BHP report. The student demonstration. The Budgie smuggler. The swearing at Roxon. The false image that he hates women.

Until such time that the ALP can find a larger lie than the carbon tax lie - they are not going to make a dent in the 2PP numbers

This is like what happened to Rudd in 2007.

Remember SCORES and earwax eating incidents?

No one really cared because they hated Workchoices even more.

It will be the same in 2013. They are not going to care what Abbott does or did.

They don't care about LIBs NBN numbers either.

They just want to get rid off the person who said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead" and the person who orchestrated the abolishment of the Pacific Solution

The LIBs are loving this.

Keep on attacking Abbott - he's the new teflon-man

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #1 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #2 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Dsmithy70

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #3 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:10pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

And both were leader whilst the most popular PM in history was in office.

Put either of those decent thoughtful men in the position now & the Coalition would be 30 points ahead, not 10 & losing ground.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #4 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:11pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

Yes, but the electorate are reacting against Labor. They're not voting FOR Abbott.

They're reacting to the ousting of Rudd and the "no carbon tax" line. They don't trust Gillard.

But they've never liked Abbott too much either, and I'd trust him even less.

Abbott is tricky. He's an intellectual, and Australians hate intellectuals. He's on the far-right. He's a denialist fossil fuel man. He's got sinister connections to the Catholic hierarchy.

Abbott is not the man for the current age, and people know this.

Still, he'll get their vote, so there's no need for you to worry.

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« Last Edit: Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:16pm by Enquiring mind »

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #5 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:16pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

Macca its not remotely the same ball game though?

Turnbull was opposing a popular PM in Kevin Rudd in a Government in its first term having been elected unanimously by the people.

Kevin Rudd - like him or loathe him - is despised within the Labor Party but is a bloody popular PM amongst the people.

Julia Gillard - is popular within the Labor Party - but clearly is not liked and has not connected with the Australian people as a whole.

That Labor will be rejected at the next election will not be because of Tony Abbott.
True he has harried and battered them with his attacks - and thats what he excels at - but in reality Labor have engineered their own downfall.

Gillard signed up with the Greens to stay in power - I always thought this was a very short termist view - true it kept her in Government but she has been shackled to a party that couldn't give a flying f for Labor's backbone - the working class family - and as a result Labor have been unable to do a lot of things they would want to do.

Her popularity is low - because of her own doing (she is a bloody terrible salesman), the party popularity is low (alienated a lot of their votes this term) and the Greens have worn away a lot of it.

None of this is because of Abbott.
I give the Liberals credit for having a 10 point lead IN SPITE of Abbott - not because.

With Turnbull leading I wouldn't give a Labor a cat's chance in hell of winning the next election.
With Abbott in charge (and every poll shows this) - there will still be people going to vote thinking of him and thinking "Gee, I am not sure you know...."

But comparing Turnbull going up against a first term Government with a popular PM (still the most popular of all the leading politicians) to Abbott going up against a poor 2nd term minority Government with an unpopular PM.

It ain't even in the same postcode mate.

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sexy_beast

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #6 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:22pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:11pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

Yes, but the electorate are reacting against Labor. They're not voting FOR Abbott.

They're reacting to the ousting of Rudd and the "no carbon tax" line. They don't trust Gillard.

But they've never liked Abbott too much either, and I'd trust him even less.

Abbott is tricky. He's an intellectual, and Australians hate intellectuals. He's on the far-right. He's a denialist fossil fuel man. He's got sinister connections to the Catholic hierarchy.

Abbott is not the man for the current age, and people know this.

Still, he'll get their vote, so there's no need for you to worry.

Then why have you supported him, and berrated Gillard for her lying?

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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #7 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:29pm

For once, Andre is spot-on. The only thing Abbott has done is simplified the attack on Labor. He's turned complex problems into one-liners, and he's riding a sense of resentment and a mistrust of politicians as a whole.

This will come back to bite him. If he's smart, he'll pull the Lib extremists in line and run a moderate, do-nothing government.

But I doubt that he will. He'll get in in a landslide, and there will be temptations from all sides to use his power. Abbott's instincts and connections are all Conservative. If he's smart, he'll hold himself back - like Howard. He'll stick to meaningless symbolic "values" issues - like history teaching in schools.

But will he? No one knows. And that's exactly what we're worried about.

In actual practice, the current minority government have done well, but they've mismanaged the message.

Abbott has not had a government to run, but he's masterfully massaged the message.

This may well come back to haunt him.

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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #8 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:32pm

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:22pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:11pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

Yes, but the electorate are reacting against Labor. They're not voting FOR Abbott.

They're reacting to the ousting of Rudd and the "no carbon tax" line. They don't trust Gillard.

But they've never liked Abbott too much either, and I'd trust him even less.

Abbott is tricky. He's an intellectual, and Australians hate intellectuals. He's on the far-right. He's a denialist fossil fuel man. He's got sinister connections to the Catholic hierarchy.

Abbott is not the man for the current age, and people know this.

Still, he'll get their vote, so there's no need for you to worry.

Then why have you supported him, and berrated Gillard for her lying?

Because I support Matty 100%, Sexy. It's an old-fashioned value called loyalty.

I wish Matty knew about it.

Still, his return will be thunderous. I live in hope.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #9 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:36pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:29pm:

The only thing Abbott has done is simplified the attack on Labor. He's turned complex problems into one-liners, and he's riding a sense of resentment and a mistrust of politicians as a whole.

That's quite funny, at the Q&A session that Julie Bishop had the other month with a room of about 100 AUS/USA people she mentioned this.

I can't remember the topic now, but she said that there was a discussion and added -

"Tony just wanted 1 line to go with for the Press, he wasn't interested in the detail he said because it will get lost in the message. He wanted it so it was clear to the Public, that's Tony's strength."

That's exactly the thing that worries me about the guy.
His potential to fly off the handle without getting the detail.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #10 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:36pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:32pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:22pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:11pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

Yes, but the electorate are reacting against Labor. They're not voting FOR Abbott.

They're reacting to the ousting of Rudd and the "no carbon tax" line. They don't trust Gillard.

But they've never liked Abbott too much either, and I'd trust him even less.

Abbott is tricky. He's an intellectual, and Australians hate intellectuals. He's on the far-right. He's a denialist fossil fuel man. He's got sinister connections to the Catholic hierarchy.

Abbott is not the man for the current age, and people know this.

Still, he'll get their vote, so there's no need for you to worry.

Then why have you supported him, and berrated Gillard for her lying?

Because I support Matty 100%, Sexy. It's an old-fashioned value called loyalty.

I wish Matty knew about it.

Still, his return will be thunderous. I live in hope.

WTF are you on about?

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Dsmithy70 Gold Member Offline ire futuis vobismetipsis Posts: 13147 Newy Gender:	Re: why attacking Abbott won't work Reply #11 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:39pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:36pm: WTF are you on about? Karnal has been playing the pond scum for the fools that they are for months.
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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #12 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:42pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:36pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:29pm:

The only thing Abbott has done is simplified the attack on Labor. He's turned complex problems into one-liners, and he's riding a sense of resentment and a mistrust of politicians as a whole.

That's quite funny, at the Q&A session that Julie Bishop had the other month with a room of about 100 AUS/USA people she mentioned this.

I can't remember the topic now, but she said that there was a discussion and added -

"Tony just wanted 1 line to go with for the Press, he wasn't interested in the detail he said because it will get lost in the message. He wanted it so it was clear to the Public, that's Tony's strength."

That's exactly the thing that worries me about the guy.
His potential to fly off the handle without getting the detail.

Certainly he's improving in this area

Media savvy is not something that he excelled as Rudd - but neither did any of the previous LIB leaders

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #13 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:43pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:10pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

And both were leader whilst the most popular PM in history was in office.

Put either of those decent thoughtful men in the position now & the Coalition would be 30 points ahead, not 10 & losing ground.

why would we want to be 30 points ahead when 10 is more than enough?

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #14 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:44pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:36pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:29pm:

The only thing Abbott has done is simplified the attack on Labor. He's turned complex problems into one-liners, and he's riding a sense of resentment and a mistrust of politicians as a whole.

That's quite funny, at the Q&A session that Julie Bishop had the other month with a room of about 100 AUS/USA people she mentioned this.

I can't remember the topic now, but she said that there was a discussion and added -

"Tony just wanted 1 line to go with for the Press, he wasn't interested in the detail he said because it will get lost in the message. He wanted it so it was clear to the Public, that's Tony's strength."

That's exactly the thing that worries me about the guy.
His potential to fly off the handle without getting the detail.

Exactly. On this issue, Andre, you are very well briefed.

Maybe you could help run Matty's campaign.

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