Australian Politics Forum - why attacking Abbott won't work

sexy_beast

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #60 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:28pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:22pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:14pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:06pm:

Alfred Deacon removed democracy long before Gillard, but she's had her part to play too.

There's no accountability and that is the problem. Once they're in they can do whatever they want and we only get the chance to get rid of them after 3 years.

Not exactly. They can SAY what they want and they can spread a few billion around where they want - within limits.

The rest of the job's done by the public service and private contractors.

My point is that election promises don't mean anything. At least they don't have to. If this were done in any other job it would be fraud but Gillard gets to get away with it.

Gillard gets away with it, and Abbott gets away with it too. There's only a choice between the lessor of two evils. I know who I'm backing.

If he chooses to defy democracy then yes he will be allowed to get away with it. You've missed my point I am blaming the system more than Gillard herself. I know who I am backing too - I'm with 55% of the population.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: why attacking Abbott won't work Reply #61 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:30pm Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:23pm: Gillard gets away with it, and Abbott gets away with it too. There's only a choice between the lessor of two evils. I know who I'm backing.
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Dnarever

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #62 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:39pm

why attacking Abbott won't work

Because he has nothing worth attacking?

I don't know how anyone even a Liberal could support Abbnott he is clearly the worst option for Australia - a very dangerous proposition.

An opposition leader who has undermined Australia at every opportunity just for political gain one who has no positive aspect at all, an attack dog living in the gutter with nothing to offer.

Yeah it is nice to win but in this case if you win you lose.

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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #63 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:49pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:30pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

Gillard gets away with it, and Abbott gets away with it too. There's only a choice between the lessor of two evils. I know who I'm backing.

Well, I was thinking of Matty, but he's now in New Zealand. Don't bag the Greens, Maqqa. Matty was a member once.

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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #64 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:51pm

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:28pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:22pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:14pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:06pm:

Alfred Deacon removed democracy long before Gillard, but she's had her part to play too.

There's no accountability and that is the problem. Once they're in they can do whatever they want and we only get the chance to get rid of them after 3 years.

Not exactly. They can SAY what they want and they can spread a few billion around where they want - within limits.

The rest of the job's done by the public service and private contractors.

My point is that election promises don't mean anything. At least they don't have to. If this were done in any other job it would be fraud but Gillard gets to get away with it.

Gillard gets away with it, and Abbott gets away with it too. There's only a choice between the lessor of two evils. I know who I'm backing.

If he chooses to defy democracy then yes he will be allowed to get away with it. You've missed my point I am blaming the system more than Gillard herself. I know who I am backing too - I'm with 55% of the population.

We still don't know if he'll be running, sexy. He's yet to get a seat.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #65 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:59pm

It takes all sorts and people occasionally make the strangest bed fellows on some subjects.

On the subject of China for example, the only Australian politician I have had time for is Bob Brown.

The kow-towing and the sickening fawning of successive Australian leaders to that gangster regime in Beijing whilst they even wipe away from their history books the Tianamen Square massacre is a disgrace.

Brown has called China out on human rights abuses on countless occasions.

Yet on tax policy I think Brown is a complete loon.

So I wouldn't be too quick to take a swipe at people for bouncing around political parties' policies.
I think its to their credit.

Otherwise you end up with idiots like Buzz who wouldn't know the arse from the head of one policy but blindly follow it because its an ALP one.

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Prevailing

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #66 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 4:15pm

Any Government that undermines commonwealth security and the welfare state is a communist Government seeking to put us under foreign control and make us a two tiered third world country. Howards Government got smashed for that, the ALP are getting smashed nation wide for that and the Greens are getting smashed. My advice is stop attacking the constitution, commonwealth and the public welfare....that is my advice to the future Abbott Government...wise up...

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #67 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 4:22pm

Lol, oh just so lol.

All else is obfuscation....................................... Cheesy

UPLOAD UPLOAD UPLOAD UPLOAD: TURNBULL SUPPORTS THE 21ST CENTURY UPLOAD STANDARD(FOLLOW THE MONEY DON'T THE TRYHARD UPPER-MIDDLECLASS ALWAYS SAY?!!? ) AND ALL SILVER SPOONERS KNOW THIS DEBATE IS ON THE INTERNET FOR THEIR CHILDRENS CHILDREN TO SEE...

WE ARE BUILIDING CHINA DON'T-YA-KNOW!!!

Lol, oh just so lol.

All else is obfuscation....................................... Cheesy

UPLOAD UPLOAD UPLOAD UPLOAD: TURNBULL SUPPORTS THE 21ST CENTURY UPLOAD STANDARD(FOLLOW THE MONEY DON'T THE TRYHARD UPPER-MIDDLECLASS ALWAYS SAY?!!? ) AND ALL SILVER SPOONERS KNOW THIS DEBATE IS ON THE INTERNET FOR THEIR CHILDRENS CHILDREN TO SEE...

WE ARE BUILIDING CHINA DON'T-YA-KNOW!!!

Lol, oh just so lol.

All else is obfuscation....................................... Cheesy

UPLOAD UPLOAD UPLOAD UPLOAD: TURNBULL SUPPORTS THE 21ST CENTURY UPLOAD STANDARD(FOLLOW THE MONEY DON'T THE TRYHARD UPPER-MIDDLECLASS ALWAYS SAY?!!? ) AND ALL SILVER SPOONERS KNOW THIS DEBATE IS ON THE INTERNET FOR THEIR CHILDRENS CHILDREN TO SEE...

WE ARE BUILIDING CHINA DON'T-YA-KNOW!!!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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skippy.

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #68 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 5:23pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:29pm:

For once, Andre is spot-on. The only thing Abbott has done is simplified the attack on Labor. He's turned complex problems into one-liners, and he's riding a sense of resentment and a mistrust of politicians as a whole.

This will come back to bite him. If he's smart, he'll pull the Lib extremists in line and run a moderate, do-nothing government.

But I doubt that he will. He'll get in in a landslide, and there will be temptations from all sides to use his power. Abbott's instincts and connections are all Conservative. If he's smart, he'll hold himself back - like Howard. He'll stick to meaningless symbolic "values" issues - like history teaching in schools.

But will he? No one knows. And that's exactly what we're worried about.

In actual practice, the current minority government have done well, but they've mismanaged the message.

Abbott has not had a government to run, but he's masterfully massaged the message.

This may well come back to haunt him.

Karnel is spot on here,ufortunately.

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Prevailing

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #69 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 5:35pm

The ALP stand to get wacked by the electorate for their vicious and relentless attacks on the commonwealth welfare state and handing over the countries assets and resources to foreign investors.They wont get back ion until they make substantial undertakings to stop attacking the General public welfare...until then we will relentlessly expose their elitist and illegal two tiered welfare system..The ALP are the greatest threat to the public welfare state, the coalition just gets led around by the nose by them ideologically....If you want more privatizations, foreign ownerships and loss of blue collar jobs to continue at the fastest rate possible...vote ALP...

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aquascoot

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #70 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 5:35pm

skippy. wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 5:23pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:29pm:

For once, Andre is spot-on. The only thing Abbott has done is simplified the attack on Labor. He's turned complex problems into one-liners, and he's riding a sense of resentment and a mistrust of politicians as a whole.

This will come back to bite him. If he's smart, he'll pull the Lib extremists in line and run a moderate, do-nothing government.

But I doubt that he will. He'll get in in a landslide, and there will be temptations from all sides to use his power. Abbott's instincts and connections are all Conservative. If he's smart, he'll hold himself back - like Howard. He'll stick to meaningless symbolic "values" issues - like history teaching in schools.

But will he? No one knows. And that's exactly what we're worried about.

In actual practice, the current minority government have done well, but they've mismanaged the message.

Abbott has not had a government to run, but he's masterfully massaged the message.

This may well come back to haunt him.

Karnel is spot on here,ufortunately.

very astute karmel,

still think they are all overexposed.

my kids used to like rhianna but she puts out a new song every fortnight and she has over exposed herself and now they wont listen to her.

cant for the life of me understand why pollies want to be on telly every day. maybe they dont, maybe its those political journos desperately trying to cling to a job.
anyway, the less tony says the better.

they'll probably replace him straight after the election anyway. cant afford his promises and he is a terrible orator.

i would think there are much more extreme right wingers in the party than him though karmel,
maybe it could be out of the frying pan into the fire when he goes.

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Gist

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #71 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 5:40pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:10pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

And both were leader whilst the most popular PM in history was in office.

Put either of those decent thoughtful men in the position now & the Coalition would be 30 points ahead, not 10 & losing ground.

why would we want to be 30 points ahead when 10 is more than enough?

Is it enough? On primary votes, the polls tend to show a fairly large group of undecided voters at around 10-15% ... on current numbers that's not a problem if they vote Liberal. If they swing to Labor though that's another story altogether.

You're also assuming that the large number of Joe Average "I don't like Gillard" people who won't even think about politics until a week before the election and pick the coalition when asked by pollsters simply as an off-the-cuff response won't change their mind once they start to examine Tony closely.

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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: why attacking Abbott won't work Reply #72 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 5:42pm If we vote the ALP in again there will be no more manufacturing done in Australia and everything will be foreign owned. If they win another election they will definitely repeal off shore processing again...you cant trust labor on public welfare, they just lie and lie...
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Enquiring mind Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 105008	Re: why attacking Abbott won't work Reply #73 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 7:51pm Gist, don't set yourself up for disappointment. Labor are out. However, there is still hope. Matty is yet to get a seat.
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Gist

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #74 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 7:57pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 7:51pm:

Gist, don't set yourself up for disappointment. Labor are out. However, there is still hope.

Matty is yet to get a seat.

Yeah, I hear his return will be awe inspiring. Grin

As for Labor losing at the next election I still think it'll be close although this far out, anything could happen. But at the end of the day if they lose then - MEH! I've survived plenty of bad governments of both persuasions in the past. I've no doubt I'd survive one from Abbott and the lunatic right so I won't be losing any sleep.

It could even be a good thing in the long run judging by what's happening in Queensland.

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