Australian Politics Forum - why attacking Abbott won't work

Andrei.Hicks

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #30 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:53pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:49pm:

Such as "Hope", "Change" and "Yes we can!" you mean?
Sure I've seen someone do that before?

LOL, so he had no policies or agenda like Abbott, nothing it was all a surprise?...

Well in his first 12 months he spent more of our money than any previous incumbent in history so he had some plans on spending

He has also spent in 4 years 85% of what the prior guy spend in 8 years too....

Not shy to get the credit card out is he...

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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #31 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:54pm

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:50pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:47pm:

Oh yeah, old Matty.

I have been on here very periodically for some time now because of work - hence only weekends I get that much time.

Matty was a 21 year old guy who lived at home if I recall rightly.
I assume from Karnal's message he has been banned or gone elsewhere etc.

Used to start every topic with a very random question of "Why am I not moderate?" or words to that effect?

Was he left or right/ Liberal or Labor?

He was animal welfare.

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Maqqa

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #32 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:54pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:10pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

And both were leader whilst the most popular PM in history was in office.

Put either of those decent thoughtful men in the position now & the Coalition would be 30 points ahead, not 10 & losing ground.

why would we want to be 30 points ahead when 10 is more than enough?

Why would you want a sensible alternative vision for Australia when you can just mouth platitudes and get elected?

This isn't just a question for Abbott, it's a question for democracy as a whole.

But your issue is with Abbott personally

So it's not about democracy!

Democracy in Aust is about a 2PP Westminster system and not a US presidential election

So whether you like Abbott or not is your right - but consider this

Most people hate the methods and leadership of a drill sergeant - but there is a place and time for this sort of leadership

Right now Aust need a forward march leader ie Abbott

You have Gillard who took 4 years to reinstate Nauru - 4 years for Thommo

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sexy_beast

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #33 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:54pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:51pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:49pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:47pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:42pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:36pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:29pm:

The only thing Abbott has done is simplified the attack on Labor. He's turned complex problems into one-liners, and he's riding a sense of resentment and a mistrust of politicians as a whole.

That's quite funny, at the Q&A session that Julie Bishop had the other month with a room of about 100 AUS/USA people she mentioned this.

I can't remember the topic now, but she said that there was a discussion and added -

"Tony just wanted 1 line to go with for the Press, he wasn't interested in the detail he said because it will get lost in the message. He wanted it so it was clear to the Public, that's Tony's strength."

That's exactly the thing that worries me about the guy.
His potential to fly off the handle without getting the detail.

Certainly he's improving in this area

Media savvy is not something that he excelled as Rudd - but neither did any of the previous LIB leaders

Well he better improve pretty quickly, less than 12 months to go.

As much as Abbott hopes the general public will "Maintain the RAGE" against Gillard therefore allowing him to be a policy & detail free zone, he is sadly mistaken.

Average Joe may not give a toss about politics for 2 years & 46 weeks but once the election is called they want to know what you stand for & how your going to pay for it.

I disagree. People couldn't have cared less about what Rudd stood before the 2007 election. All they cared about was Workchoices.

There was a lot more to it than that. Back then, believe it or not, people also wanted something done about climate change.

Maybe to a degree but most people I spoke to said that Workchoices was their concern with most not even mentioning anything else.

I am a Lib voter always have been always will. Nothing will make me ever not vote for them. It's only the swinging voters who matter and that's what the ones I know told me.

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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #34 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:55pm

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:48pm:

Labor's main problem is Gillard. People just don't trust her, and they never will. It wouldn't matter who the Libs had as leader, Gillard just won't win them the election. That's ALL it comes down to. If they put in another leader, the polls would be tighter. 55-45 is an absolute hiding. It's telling that Labor actually celebrated a 53-47 poll a few weeks ago.

You summed it up in one, Sexy.

Maybe you could help with the campaign too.

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sexy_beast

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #35 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:55pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:51pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:50pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:47pm:

Oh yeah, old Matty.

I have been on here very periodically for some time now because of work - hence only weekends I get that much time.

Matty was a 21 year old guy who lived at home if I recall rightly.
I assume from Karnal's message he has been banned or gone elsewhere etc.

Used to start every topic with a very random question of "Why am I not moderate?" or words to that effect?

Was he left or right/ Liberal or Labor?

bugger knows.
My care factor on all that nonsense is not very high.
I remember very little about it, only the endless absurd questions on threads from him.

I rarely come on here these days.

I opened my account in July and don't post that often. I even started a thread but it got removed. I guess it'll just remain a mystery.

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sexy_beast Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 575 Gender:	Re: why attacking Abbott won't work Reply #36 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:56pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:53pm: sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:50pm: See this isn't making any sense to me. I sense deliberately so. bugger off then Why?
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Dsmithy70

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #37 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:57pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:53pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

[quote author=654A4056414D0A6C4D474F57240 link=1347248857/20#20 date=1347252547]Such as "Hope", "Change" and "Yes we can!" you mean?
Sure I've seen someone do that before?

Quote:

LOL, so he had no policies or agenda like Abbott, nothing it was all a surprise?

Well in his first 12 months he spent more of our money than any previous incumbent in history so he had some plans on spending...

He has also spent in 4 years 85% of what the prior guy spend in 8 years too....

Not shy to get the credit card out is he...

AS always GFC means nothing to those of a conservative bent.

Nor the fact that that money you cry over actually went to Wall St & other supposed CAPITALIST entities instead of letting them go under as true CAPITALISM would.

But this is a thread on Abbott not Obama.

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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #38 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:57pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:10pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

And both were leader whilst the most popular PM in history was in office.

Put either of those decent thoughtful men in the position now & the Coalition would be 30 points ahead, not 10 & losing ground.

why would we want to be 30 points ahead when 10 is more than enough?

Why would you want a sensible alternative vision for Australia when you can just mouth platitudes and get elected?

This isn't just a question for Abbott, it's a question for democracy as a whole.

But your issue is with Abbott personally

So it's not about democracy!

Democracy in Aust is about a 2PP Westminster system and not a US presidential election

So whether you like Abbott or not is your right - but consider this

Most people hate the methods and leadership of a drill sergeant - but there is a place and time for this sort of leadership

Right now Aust need a forward march leader ie Abbott

March forward? Ah - you must have been living in Pakistan for the last 10 years.

Abbott's a march backwards leader.

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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #39 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:59pm

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:51pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:50pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:47pm:

Oh yeah, old Matty.

I have been on here very periodically for some time now because of work - hence only weekends I get that much time.

Matty was a 21 year old guy who lived at home if I recall rightly.
I assume from Karnal's message he has been banned or gone elsewhere etc.

Used to start every topic with a very random question of "Why am I not moderate?" or words to that effect?

Was he left or right/ Liberal or Labor?

bugger knows.
My care factor on all that nonsense is not very high.
I remember very little about it, only the endless absurd questions on threads from him.

I rarely come on here these days.

I opened my account in July and don't post that often. I even started a thread but it got removed. I guess it'll just remain a mystery.

I guess it will. Matty used to talk about himself quite a lot too. Who knows? Maybe you've met.

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sexy_beast

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #40 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:00pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:59pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:51pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:50pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:47pm:

Oh yeah, old Matty.

I have been on here very periodically for some time now because of work - hence only weekends I get that much time.

Matty was a 21 year old guy who lived at home if I recall rightly.
I assume from Karnal's message he has been banned or gone elsewhere etc.

Used to start every topic with a very random question of "Why am I not moderate?" or words to that effect?

Was he left or right/ Liberal or Labor?

bugger knows.
My care factor on all that nonsense is not very high.
I remember very little about it, only the endless absurd questions on threads from him.

I rarely come on here these days.

I opened my account in July and don't post that often. I even started a thread but it got removed. I guess it'll just remain a mystery.

I guess it will. Matty used to talk about himself quite a lot too. Who knows? Maybe you've met.

No definitely not. I wouldn't be asking if I knew he was.

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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #41 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:03pm

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:10pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

And both were leader whilst the most popular PM in history was in office.

Put either of those decent thoughtful men in the position now & the Coalition would be 30 points ahead, not 10 & losing ground.

why would we want to be 30 points ahead when 10 is more than enough?

Why would you want a sensible alternative vision for Australia when you can just mouth platitudes and get elected?

This isn't just a question for Abbott, it's a question for democracy as a whole.

But your issue is with Abbott personally

So it's not about democracy!

Democracy in Aust is about a 2PP Westminster system and not a US presidential election

Democracy has nothing to do with the Westminster system - this is just a legal/administrative model.

Democracy is about people participating in the management of their communities.

The current system is designed to keep people from participating, and hoodwink them at every step of the way. Abbott's an absolute master.

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Enquiring mind

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #42 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:04pm

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:00pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:59pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:51pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:50pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:47pm:

Oh yeah, old Matty.

I have been on here very periodically for some time now because of work - hence only weekends I get that much time.

Matty was a 21 year old guy who lived at home if I recall rightly.
I assume from Karnal's message he has been banned or gone elsewhere etc.

Used to start every topic with a very random question of "Why am I not moderate?" or words to that effect?

Was he left or right/ Liberal or Labor?

bugger knows.
My care factor on all that nonsense is not very high.
I remember very little about it, only the endless absurd questions on threads from him.

I rarely come on here these days.

I opened my account in July and don't post that often. I even started a thread but it got removed. I guess it'll just remain a mystery.

I guess it will. Matty used to talk about himself quite a lot too. Who knows? Maybe you've met.

No definitely not. I wouldn't be asking if I knew he was.

Yes, that's true. You've asked before too, haven't you?

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sexy_beast

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Re: why attacking Abbott won't work
Reply #43 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:04pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:03pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:10pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

I disagree. Abbott is the one problem the Libs have as a credible alternative. The electorate might hate Labor, but they have not warmed to Abbott.

Labor need to sell their own policies - but the fears in the electorate about Abbott are already there.

Put simply, Tony Abbott is not one of us. He's a DLP company man, and has been all his life.

Attacking Abbott WILL work, but it won't get Labor over the line. People want them out so much they're prepared to risk Abbott.

Alas, Australia will get the government it deserves.

The LIBs put in Nelson and Turnbull - the 2PP and the personal preferences was incredibly low

with Abbott in - the 2PP are now 10 points ahead

And both were leader whilst the most popular PM in history was in office.

Put either of those decent thoughtful men in the position now & the Coalition would be 30 points ahead, not 10 & losing ground.

why would we want to be 30 points ahead when 10 is more than enough?

Why would you want a sensible alternative vision for Australia when you can just mouth platitudes and get elected?

This isn't just a question for Abbott, it's a question for democracy as a whole.

But your issue is with Abbott personally

So it's not about democracy!

Democracy in Aust is about a 2PP Westminster system and not a US presidential election

Democracy has nothing to do with the Westminster system - this is just a legal/administrative model.

Democracy is about people participating in the management of their communities.

The current system is designed to keep people from participating, and hoodwink them at every step of the way. Abbott's an absolute master.

Gillard's removed democracy really. I blame the game more than the player though as the games allows it.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: why attacking Abbott won't work Reply #44 - Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:05pm Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 10^th, 2012 at 3:03pm: The current system is designed to keep people from participating, and hoodwink them at every step of the way. Abbott's an absolute master. given that participation is about voting and we get compulsory voting - I'd say that's participation
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