Australian Politics Forum - How do people reject climate science?

Avram Horowitz

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Re: How do people reject climate science?
Reply #60 - Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:34am

MOTR wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:31am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:09am:

I agree with the science and that humans cause some change.

I do not agree with some of you solution to just allow the worst polluters to keep increasing while we all try to reduce just because you feel sorry for them.

We are the worst polluters, Avram.

No you are not.
It is China.

Or if you take your insane per capita our biggest problem is the Dutch Antilles and Qatar!!

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MOTR

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Re: How do people reject climate science?
Reply #61 - Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:47am

We've had this debate before. You claim to be studying economics yet you seem to have no concept of the importance of using per capita measurements. Over half of us live in China and India, of course their emmissions from these countries are going to be significant. I don't believe we have the right to lock them into emmission rates less than ours without some sort of compensation. This is not some sort of radical view, it is a concept well understood by those working to negotiate some sort of collective agreement. It is why concessions have been made in the past and why concessions will be a part of any workable solution of the future.

And, Avram, I've travelled to China several times. I've lived in a Chinese household. I know first hand that a Chinese family has a much smaller carbon footprint than an Australian family. We don't want them getting close to our levels, we should be aiming to get closer to theirs.

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« Last Edit: Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:55am by MOTR »

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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progressiveslol

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Re: How do people reject climate science?
Reply #62 - Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:58am

MOTR wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:47am:

We've had this debate before. You claim to be studying economics yet you seem to have no concept of the importance of using per capita measurements. Over half of us live in China and India, of course their emmissions from these countries are going to be significant. I don't believe we have the right to lock them into emmission rates less than ours without some sort of compensation. This is not some sort of radical view, it is a concept well understood by those working to negotiate some sort of collective agreement. It is why concessions have been made in the past and why concessions will be a part of any workable solution of the future.

It is not the per capita countries fault that the chinese have over populated themselves either.

You could equally argue that letting your population grow exponentially (without incentives for less children) is more irresponsible than having a small population and allowing them to use their countries resources in a manner to better their lives.

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MOTR

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Re: How do people reject climate science?
Reply #63 - Sep 8^th, 2012 at 11:00am

progressiveslol wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:58am:

MOTR wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:47am:

We've had this debate before. You claim to be studying economics yet you seem to have no concept of the importance of using per capita measurements. Over half of us live in China and India, of course their emmissions from these countries are going to be significant. I don't believe we have the right to lock them into emmission rates less than ours without some sort of compensation. This is not some sort of radical view, it is a concept well understood by those working to negotiate some sort of collective agreement. It is why concessions have been made in the past and why concessions will be a part of any workable solution of the future.

It is not the per capita countries fault that the chinese have over populated themselves either.

You could equally argue that letting your population grow exponentially (without incentives for less children) is more irresponsible than having a small population and allowing them to use their countries resources in a manner to better their lives.

You've heard of China's one child policy, progs.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: How do people reject climate science? Reply #64 - Sep 8^th, 2012 at 11:10am So MOTR you didn't answer my point. Do you believe the Dutch Antilles and Falkland Islands are our biggest problems?
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MOTR

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Re: How do people reject climate science?
Reply #65 - Sep 8^th, 2012 at 11:44am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 11:10am:

So MOTR you didn't answer my point.

Do you believe the Dutch Antilles and Falkland Islands are our biggest problems?

Any individual with a large carbon footprint is part of the problem. Collectively these individuals, wherever they live, are our biggest problem. The people of the Falklands Islands and the Dutch Antilles have a responsibility to reduce their emissions, irrespective of how little they collectively contribute to the problem.

I believe China rising to our level of emissions is a huge problem and more worrying than the emissions of the Falkland Islands. This does not contradict my position that China needs concessions if we want to limit them to emissions below ours.

I didn't answer your question, Avram because it's non sequitur. A point I made in the last thread you tried to derail with this same nonsense.

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« Last Edit: Sep 8^th, 2012 at 11:49am by MOTR »

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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progressiveslol

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Re: How do people reject climate science?
Reply #66 - Sep 8^th, 2012 at 11:53pm

MOTR wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 11:00am:

progressiveslol wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:58am:

MOTR wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:47am:

We've had this debate before. You claim to be studying economics yet you seem to have no concept of the importance of using per capita measurements. Over half of us live in China and India, of course their emmissions from these countries are going to be significant. I don't believe we have the right to lock them into emmission rates less than ours without some sort of compensation. This is not some sort of radical view, it is a concept well understood by those working to negotiate some sort of collective agreement. It is why concessions have been made in the past and why concessions will be a part of any workable solution of the future.

It is not the per capita countries fault that the chinese have over populated themselves either.

You could equally argue that letting your population grow exponentially (without incentives for less children) is more irresponsible than having a small population and allowing them to use their countries resources in a manner to better their lives.

You've heard of China's one child policy, progs.

little late and too brutal. They should have done something much earlier and more incentive rather than dictatorial.

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rabbitoh07

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Re: How do people reject climate science?
Reply #67 - Sep 9^th, 2012 at 12:30am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:34am:

MOTR wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:31am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 8^th, 2012 at 10:09am:

I agree with the science and that humans cause some change.

I do not agree with some of you solution to just allow the worst polluters to keep increasing while we all try to reduce just because you feel sorry for them.

We are the worst polluters, Avram.

No you are not.
It is China.

Or if you take your insane per capita our biggest problem is the Dutch Antilles and Qatar!!

No - it is not. It is the USA and EU.

Co2 accumulates in the atmosophere. And the amount of CO2 emitted historically by the USA and EU still dwarfs that emitted by China - even if the current rate of emissions coming from the within arbitrarily drawn boundaries of the country called "China" may now be larger.

But of course - arbitrary national boundaries are irrelevant. On average, each individual in Australia/USA/EU etc still emits up to 4 times more than each individual in China. THe atmosphere doesn't differentiate between different countries. There is no reason that you should. But the people that emit the most should try to reduce. Pretty simple.

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progressiveslol

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Re: How do people reject climate science?
Reply #68 - Sep 9^th, 2012 at 8:20pm

Now is your chance to do this pathetic pseudo science poll.

If you dont within half way through this poll, realise where the author was going with it and the pathetic ideology oozing from it, the you are possibly brain washed.

http://ascottblog.wordpress.com/lewandowsky-survey-replicated/
Password is GO TO SITE TO FIND OUT http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/08/replication-of-lewandowsky-survey/

This poll is made to be skewed, but try to tell the truth if you can help yourself.

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: How do people reject climate science? Reply #69 - Sep 9^th, 2012 at 8:53pm Which conspiracies do you believe in, progs?
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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: How do people reject climate science? Reply #70 - Sep 9^th, 2012 at 8:59pm MOTR wrote on Sep 9^th, 2012 at 8:53pm: Which conspiracies do you believe in, progs? I could only give all of them a 3. Not true, not false, because I dont know. I neither believe nor disbelieve certain conspiracy theories.
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MOTR

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Re: How do people reject climate science?
Reply #71 - Sep 9^th, 2012 at 9:45pm

progressiveslol wrote on Sep 9^th, 2012 at 8:59pm:

MOTR wrote on Sep 9^th, 2012 at 8:53pm:

Which conspiracies do you believe in, progs?

I could only give all of them a 3. Not true, not false, because I dont know.

I neither believe nor disbelieve certain conspiracy theories.

Even the one about WMD?
and what about the Apollo moon landing? Do you think that might be a conspiracy?

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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progressiveslol

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Re: How do people reject climate science?
Reply #72 - Sep 9^th, 2012 at 10:27pm

MOTR wrote on Sep 9^th, 2012 at 9:45pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Sep 9^th, 2012 at 8:59pm:

MOTR wrote on Sep 9^th, 2012 at 8:53pm:

Which conspiracies do you believe in, progs?

I could only give all of them a 3. Not true, not false, because I dont know.

I neither believe nor disbelieve certain conspiracy theories.

Even the one about WMD?
and what about the Apollo moon landing? Do you think that might be a conspiracy?

I dont know enough either way. I was not on the moon to verify. I was not there to verify WMD's. Neither believe nor disbelieve.

I guess it boils down to how much you care about a subject to force yourself into a position.

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: How do people reject climate science? Reply #73 - Sep 9^th, 2012 at 10:39pm Really, progs. The moon landing. You're not convinced we went to the moon. Lewandowsky might be onto something here. Although you are a very small sample.
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progressiveslol

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Re: How do people reject climate science?
Reply #74 - Sep 9^th, 2012 at 11:28pm

MOTR wrote on Sep 9^th, 2012 at 10:39pm:

Really, progs. The moon landing. You're not convinced we went to the moon. Lewandowsky might be onto something here. Although you are a very small sample.

It is more I dont really care. I dont feel I need to be a yes man or no man on any subject that does not involve my interest, but pathetic try from you indeed.

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