Australian Politics Forum - Turnbull swipes at Abbott

Avram Horowitz

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #30 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:35pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:29pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:21pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Direct action is not always funded by taxation.

I can tell you this from experience.

There is a hydro facility outside of Haifa that was built by the Government to improve energy delivery away from traditional source.

It was not funded from taxes.

We are not in Israel,
Direct Action Australia is funded solely by the Australian Government though taxation.
Revenue may come into it once developed but full start up costs are funded by my tax $$$

I am not telling you that you are.
There is no reason Australia could not invest in the same technology and it does not come from taxes.

To use taxes is a easy way out and you are not being truthful saying it always costs taxes.
It does not. No matter which country it is.

Don't you understand English?
My posts acknowledges that revenue may come into it but Liberal policy is to fund the start up from General revenue.
Funniest thing is no tax $$ are being used with Labors CARBON TAX, yet only Tax Dollars are being used by the man promising to abolish the Carbon Tax. Grin

We have looked at this tax in the university economics classes and the costs to pay for the penalizing of the larger companies will be passed on to the consumer in Australia.

So they pay no tax $$ but they will eventually be paying for this change.

The average aussie in the street will pay for the climate action plan. That is not in doubt.

I am saying that this should not happen - no $$ from direct action and no $$ from added cost because of a penalty to providers.

There are other ways and it is lazy to not look at them.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #31 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:39pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:32pm:

what about grants?
Funded private investment?

All of this can come from before the facility is operational?

Toyota part funded the hydro facility in Haifa to use water for energy.

None of this came from taxes.

I think a tax on people for climate action is absurd - from any political party.
It is not the people who should pay for any of this.

You are right
And with the current Labor policy none are
However it becomes a different story if the Libs win & get rid of Labors non tax.
Like I said Funny, if it didn't actually reveal how glaringly thick the average Aussie must be going on polls.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #32 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:41pm

Yes they are.

The carbon tax penalizing the polluters will be passed to the consumer in increased prices and the australian consumer will pay for their penalty this way.

So both of your political parties are having your everyday person pay for the cost of climate change -

one by passing the costs in bills and living.
The other - if they choose direct action by tax - in taxes.

However look this way - if they choose direct action by tax - if they dont increase your taxes you see no difference. But with your current Government plan - you are paying more on top?

Yes?

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #33 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:44pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

We have looked at this tax in the university economics classes and the costs to pay for the penalizing of the larger companies will be passed on to the consumer in Australia.

So they pay no tax $$ but they will eventually be paying for this change.

The average aussie in the street will pay for the climate action plan. That is not in doubt.

I am saying that this should not happen - no $$ from direct action and no $$ from added cost because of a penalty to providers.

Quote:

However look this way - if they choose direct action by tax - if they dont increase your taxes you see no difference. But with your current Government plan - you are paying more on top?

True the consumer will pay but has the choice, as the market will decide if companies that just pass on the full increase continue to be patronized or if companies that change practice to mitigate costs & therefore are cheaper will win.

I know who I'm backing.

Also whilst the consumer might not notice a cost funded by tax they will sure notice when services currently funded by that money disappear or cost more.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #34 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:48pm

how does the consumer have the choice when all electricity companies will increase their cost?

When the price of gas will increase across the companies?
They dont have a choice when all of them increase do they?

Be honest, costs will increase as a result of your Government's scheme.
I have the scheme in the workbook in front of me from our economics discussions in university - it will cost the australian consumer.

Now if you do direct action - you only see the increase if they increase tax.
If they don't you are not worse than when you began - they simply make room in the budget cutting elsewhere yes?

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #35 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:49pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Also whilst the consumer might not notice a cost funded by tax they will sure notice when services currently funded by that money disappear or cost more.

It depends what you cut.

If you cut foreign aid - how do you notice the difference?
You give a lot of foreign aid out.

What about in some of your expenditure to politicians?
What about cutting back what you give to the UN?

There are lots of programs you can cut without hurting your citizens.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott Reply #36 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:51pm I should add i dont support Governments taking direct action funded by tax. I am in favor of the private enterprise schemes which i have mentioned. But i am more in favor of direct action which does not see a tax increase or a increase in cost of living.
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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott Reply #37 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:59pm I se the Jewish sock is commenting in Australian domestic issues, AGAIN, even after claiming she never did. ACTUALLY can Jews have sox? Brit Milah and all. Lucky this is a pretend Jew.
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Dsmithy70

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #38 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 1:04pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:49pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Also whilst the consumer might not notice a cost funded by tax they will sure notice when services currently funded by that money disappear or cost more.

It depends what you cut.

If you cut foreign aid - how do you notice the difference?
You give a lot of foreign aid out.

What about in some of your expenditure to politicians?
What about cutting back what you give to the UN?

There are lots of programs you can cut without hurting your citizens.

LOL, we give under the average FA
But besides that little detail both parties have pledged to increase FA to above the International Average

0.5% of GNI is the stated bipartisan target.

But nothing like getting the racists & xenophobes riled up.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #39 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 1:15pm

Poor Mal.
He's never gotten over being removed as leader of the opposition, and that he is 'yesterdays man' trying to get his dial in the media.
He should do his long suffering electorate and party a favour and follow his true calling which is being leader of the ALP.
He must think he'll be missed by the Coalition if he walks away or something.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

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skippy.

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #40 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 1:17pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

Poor Mal.
He's never gotten over being removed as leader of the opposition, and that he is 'yesterdays man' trying to get his dial in the media.
He should do his long suffering electorate and party a favour and follow his true calling which is being leader of the ALP.
He must think he'll be missed by the Coalition if he walks away or something.

Yet in EVERY poll taken the overwhelming majority of voters want Turnbull to lead the Libs. How do you explain that chookster?

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Dsmithy70 Gold Member Offline ire futuis vobismetipsis Posts: 13147 Newy Gender:	Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott Reply #41 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 1:26pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:48pm: how does the consumer have the choice when all electricity companies will increase their cost? Well in my area we are supplied by 2 companies, 1 passed on a 18% increase the other passed on a 11% increase. Which 1 is seeing a spike in new customers do you think?
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Enquiring mind

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #42 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 1:33pm

Shane B wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 10:13am:

Turnbull needs to keep his mouth shut.

The sooner this wet gets disendorsed the better. He can then follow his true calling as the Labor for Wentworth.

He's a useless prick.

Yes, Shane B, but even Matty won't put his full support behind Mr Abbott. He declines to answer whether he is 100% behind Mr Abbott.

Thoughts?

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skippy.

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #43 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 1:41pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 1:33pm:

Shane B wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 10:13am:

Turnbull needs to keep his mouth shut.

The sooner this wet gets disendorsed the better. He can then follow his true calling as the Labor for Wentworth.

He's a useless prick.

Yes, Shane B, but even Matty won't put his full support behind Mr Abbott. He declines to answer whether he is 100% behind Mr Abbott.

Thoughts?

LOL good luck with any of those .

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Turnbull swipes at Abbott
Reply #44 - Sep 6^th, 2012 at 2:04pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 1:26pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 6^th, 2012 at 12:48pm:

how does the consumer have the choice when all electricity companies will increase their cost?

Well in my area we are supplied by 2 companies,
1 passed on a 18% increase the other passed on a 11% increase.

Which 1 is seeing a spike in new customers do you think?

why should a consumer have to pay anything at all for climate policies?
I am not in favor of a consumer paying a single dime for it.

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