Australian Politics Forum - The myth of temporary protection visas

John S

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The myth of temporary protection visas
Aug 20^th, 2012 at 9:56am

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In the ongoing debate about asylum seekers, it's not unusual for misinformation to be spouted as if it is fact.

The recent publicity about how Malaysia treats non-citizens, confirmed by UNHCR officials, at least puts paid to the nonsense that asylum seekers moved on from that country where they had the option of living in safety. Not possible without work rights, without access to education for children and in a country where caning is normal practice for people without visas.

But the misinformation around the asylum seeker issue abounds. In particular, it intrigues me that there continues to be calls for Temporary Protection Visas (TPVs) to be reintroduced as a deterrent to asylum seekers when all the evidence points to them being a factor in increasing the number of boat arrivals.

In this vexed debate, TPVs are almost a joy to discuss in that it is relatively easy to establish facts around them. We know from Immigration Department records the numbers of people who arrived by boat on a month-by-month basis before and after TPVs were introduced. We know they were introduced in late October 1999. We know that the numbers of boat arrivals increased in 2000 and 2001 compared with 1999.

Note that the 2001 figures in the table below include passengers on boats that were intercepted by the navy and whose passengers were either returned to Indonesia or taken to Nauru or Papua New Guinea. The figures also include passengers on the SIEV X boat which sank in October 2001, killing 353 people. The rationale for including these boats is that they illustrate (a) the increasing numbers of people attempting the journey to Australia in 2001 and (b) the high proportion of children on the 2001 boats.

Asylum seeker boat passengers

http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/2757870/data/asylum-seeker-boat-passenge...

We know other things about TPVs. We know that people who were granted permanent protection visas could access family reunion programs and arrange for their families to join them. We know that this option was not available to TPV holders - mainly men - who therefore had no official channel by which they could arrange for their wives and children to join them.

We know that in 1999, almost all asylum seekers who came by boat were men, and there were few women and children. We know this, again because of Immigration Department records and also because the detention centres were built to accommodate mainly men; there were few family compounds. This was reported by departmental officials.

We also know that the demographics of asylum seekers began to change after TPVs were introduced. Gradually but inexorably, the boats started to carry more women and children, in relative and absolute terms. Three quarters of the passengers on the SIEV X were women and children.

Now how to interpret these facts. I have spoken with people who survived the SIEV X tragedy and men whose entire families drowned on that boat. As part of my PhD research, I have spoken with people who were in Indonesia between 1999 and 2001 who told me what they recall about the effect of the introduction of TPVs. I have spoken to women who got on boats after TPVs came in who said they would not have done so had their husbands in Australia been able to access the family reunion program. I have spoken to husbands and wives who told me that they decided to travel as a family group only because if the man travelled on ahead, there was no way the family could be reunited because of TPVs. In such cases, instead of one person making the journey by boat, between three and five people made the journey.

Conversely, not one person said they were deterred by TPVs.

In summary, the numbers and personal accounts support the argument that TPVs were a factor in the growth of asylum seeker numbers and were the main reason that so many women and children got on smugglers' boats.

As for evidence that TPVs were a deterrent - there isn't any. There is only speculation by those who haven't bothered fact checking or doing a bit of research. If anyone tells you that TPVs were a factor in stopping boats in 2001, rest assured they have no idea what they are talking about, or they are simply lying.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2757748.html

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____ Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33410 Australia Gender:	Re: The myth of temporary protection visas Reply #1 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 10:01am Good article
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woof woof

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Re: The myth of temporary protection visas
Reply #2 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:17pm

OK.

If they weren't deterred by the lack of TPVs which BTW was just a part of the pacific solution.

could you please explain why during the pacific solution period, we had next to NO boats arrive.

Not interested about any other facet of the policy, just the fact and reasons why almost NO boats arrived during the pacific solution period???

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____

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Re: The myth of temporary protection visas
Reply #3 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:38pm

woof woof wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:17pm:

OK.

If they weren't deterred by the lack of TPVs which BTW was just a part of the pacific solution.

could you please explain why during the pacific solution period, we had next to NO boats arrive.

Not interested about any other facet of the policy, just the fact and reasons why almost NO boats arrived during the pacific solution period???

Push factors decreased

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...

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Re: The myth of temporary protection visas
Reply #4 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:45pm

____ wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:38pm:

woof woof wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:17pm:

OK.

If they weren't deterred by the lack of TPVs which BTW was just a part of the pacific solution.

could you please explain why during the pacific solution period, we had next to NO boats arrive.

Not interested about any other facet of the policy, just the fact and reasons why almost NO boats arrived during the pacific solution period???

Push factors decreased

Which push factors?

Is it mere coincidence that push factors increased again when our policy was changed?

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In the fullness of time...

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Gist

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Re: The myth of temporary protection visas
Reply #5 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:51pm

... wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:45pm:

____ wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:38pm:

woof woof wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:17pm:

OK.

If they weren't deterred by the lack of TPVs which BTW was just a part of the pacific solution.

could you please explain why during the pacific solution period, we had next to NO boats arrive.

Not interested about any other facet of the policy, just the fact and reasons why almost NO boats arrived during the pacific solution period???

Push factors decreased

Which push factors?

Is it mere coincidence that push factors increased again when our policy was changed?

Probably, yes. Because those same push factors also increased arrivals in many other OECD countries.

Unless you want to join lolly in la-la land and assert that the Pacific Solution somehow decreased arrivals in Europe?

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Baronvonrort

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Re: The myth of temporary protection visas
Reply #6 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:53pm

John S wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 9:56am:

In the ongoing debate about asylum seekers, it's not unusual for misinformation to be spouted as if it is fact.

But the misinformation around the asylum seeker issue abounds. In particular, it intrigues me that there continues to be calls for Temporary Protection Visas (TPVs) to be reintroduced as a deterrent to asylum seekers when all the evidence points to them being a factor in increasing the number of boat arrivals.

The refugee advocates and leftists are responsible for most of this misinformation being spread.

If the TPV increased the number of boats i suggest you put your cack pipe down and check the real facts instead of the leftist lies.

83.5% of these boat people are still on welfare up to 5 years after arriving in Australia, we couldnt do a longer study as there were only 4 boat people in detention when labor dismantled the policies that stopped the boats.

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Gist

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Re: The myth of temporary protection visas
Reply #7 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 2:01pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

John S wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 9:56am:

In the ongoing debate about asylum seekers, it's not unusual for misinformation to be spouted as if it is fact.

But the misinformation around the asylum seeker issue abounds. In particular, it intrigues me that there continues to be calls for Temporary Protection Visas (TPVs) to be reintroduced as a deterrent to asylum seekers when all the evidence points to them being a factor in increasing the number of boat arrivals.

The refugee advocates and leftists are responsible for most of this misinformation being spread.

If the TPV increased the number of boats i suggest you put your cack pipe down and check the real facts instead of the leftist lies.

83.5% of these boat people are still on welfare up to 5 years after arriving in Australia, we couldnt do a longer study as there were only 4 boat people in detention when labor dismantled the policies that stopped the boats.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7401/boats.gif

Another one that puts up a meaningless chart without the least glimmer of understanding. Sounds like you're the one needing to lay off the crack!

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"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

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____ Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33410 Australia Gender:	Re: The myth of temporary protection visas Reply #8 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 2:02pm "welfare" ... does this include things like the baby bonus welfare. Debunking the myths http://www.boat-people.org/?page_id=148
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: The myth of temporary protection visas Reply #9 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 2:04pm ____ wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 2:02pm: "welfare" ... does this include things like the baby bonus welfare. Excellent policy!! $5,000. Thank you kindly Aussies.
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...

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Re: The myth of temporary protection visas
Reply #10 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 2:08pm

Gist wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:51pm:

... wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:45pm:

____ wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:38pm:

woof woof wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:17pm:

OK.

If they weren't deterred by the lack of TPVs which BTW was just a part of the pacific solution.

could you please explain why during the pacific solution period, we had next to NO boats arrive.

Not interested about any other facet of the policy, just the fact and reasons why almost NO boats arrived during the pacific solution period???

Push factors decreased

Which push factors?

Is it mere coincidence that push factors increased again when our policy was changed?

Probably, yes. Because those same push factors also increased arrivals in many other OECD countries.

Unless you want to join lolly in la-la land and assert that the Pacific Solution somehow decreased arrivals in Europe?

I don't want to join anyone. I just asked for clarification on what seemed to me to be a vapid, dismissive excuse.

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In the fullness of time...

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Baronvonrort

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Re: The myth of temporary protection visas
Reply #11 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 2:11pm

Gist wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 2:01pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

John S wrote on Aug 20^th, 2012 at 9:56am:

In the ongoing debate about asylum seekers, it's not unusual for misinformation to be spouted as if it is fact.

But the misinformation around the asylum seeker issue abounds. In particular, it intrigues me that there continues to be calls for Temporary Protection Visas (TPVs) to be reintroduced as a deterrent to asylum seekers when all the evidence points to them being a factor in increasing the number of boat arrivals.

The refugee advocates and leftists are responsible for most of this misinformation being spread.

If the TPV increased the number of boats i suggest you put your cack pipe down and check the real facts instead of the leftist lies.

83.5% of these boat people are still on welfare up to 5 years after arriving in Australia, we couldnt do a longer study as there were only 4 boat people in detention when labor dismantled the policies that stopped the boats.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7401/boats.gif

Another one that puts up a meaningless chart without the least glimmer of understanding. Sounds like you're the one needing to lay off the crack!

Yes a government chart that shows the number of arrivals is meangingless to the leftists when it contradicts their cock and bull stories.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: The myth of temporary protection visas Reply #12 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 2:17pm An absolutely moron article Trying to represent information that suits their argument that has nothing to do with TPV WTF did they introduce it in the first pace!!??? You lefties have got no absolute idea Why would you look at 1996 data for TPV?
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: The myth of temporary protection visas Reply #13 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 2:21pm TPV were introduced because people were flouting the system
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 62038 Here Gender:	Re: The myth of temporary protection visas Reply #14 - Aug 20^th, 2012 at 2:23pm TPV's What a wonderfull thing to do to people asking for help - lock them up for 5 to 7 years and then give them more uncertainty for an indefinate period. I wonder where we find the low life arsewipes who come up with these ideas.
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