Australian Politics Forum - NT Labor gives Gillard the flick

Shane B Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1473 Canberra Gender:	Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick Reply #15 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:46pm Here you go, debt currently at $238 billion. http://aofm.gov.au/
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John S

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Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick
Reply #16 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:51pm

here you go all you d!ckheads

I posted this today on Senate enquiry into the GFC

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1344375049

Quote:

I am bloody sick of all you liberals going on about Howard and Costello having a surplus all the time and no debt.

Now get off your high horse and come back into the real world. Have you got any debt AP e.g. house mortgage, credit cards, personal loans etc can you pay them all on time.

Now we will look at small business and their loans. Most of them would pay rent where they are so they wouldn't have a mortgage but they would have but rent to pay, business loans, staff wages holiday pay and long service leave, stock on hand etc.

Now we will look at big business they would have the same loads as a small business plus investment loans most of their machinery would be lease and would be on their books as a debt.

Now we get onto the government. Any government that runs a surplus all the time is showing one of two things, they are taxes us too much or they are not supplying services that people want or need and they are not building infrastructure that the country needs for the country to grow. Now with the government borrowing money how do you thing the government would run without money, how would they pay the public services how would they pay contractors.

If you think that the Howard government never borrowed money you don't know how governments works. They all borrow money it is servicing the debt that is the main worry just like the example I gave above they can all service the debt. I don't think we have any trouble of the government not paying the debt down

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Gist

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Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick
Reply #17 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:07pm

Shane B wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Here you go, debt currently at $238 billion.

http://aofm.gov.au/

That isn't what I asked.

You're comparing today's debt against past debt without any adjustment whatsoever and then claiming that debt today is at RECORD levels. That was your claim. And that's just plain WRONG.

Here, try this one instead. This one from Treasury http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1496/PDF/01_Debt.pdf shows debt is nowhere near record levels historically.

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Gist Gold Member Offline I am not a sock, I am a human being! Posts: 5476	Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick Reply #18 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:19pm PS. You'll notice that, unlike some of you lot, I didn't need to be asked for a link...
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Shane B

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Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick
Reply #19 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:24pm

Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Shane B wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Here you go, debt currently at $238 billion.

http://aofm.gov.au/

That isn't what I asked.

You're comparing today's debt against past debt without any adjustment whatsoever and then claiming that debt today is at RECORD levels. That was your claim. And that's just plain WRONG.

Here, try this one instead. This one from Treasury http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1496/PDF/01_Debt.pdf shows debt is nowhere near record levels historically.

The chart isn't very current. It's now near 18 per cent of GDP if you use the gross debt measure presented in that chart.

The Government's preferred measure is net debt.

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Julia Gillard - twice selected, never elected.

We're still paying for the Whitlam Government.

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Shane B Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1473 Canberra Gender:	Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick Reply #20 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:25pm Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:19pm: PS. You'll notice that, unlike some of you lot, I didn't need to be asked for a link... You were asking for one earlier, so I gave you one bubby.
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Gist

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Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick
Reply #21 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:28pm

Shane B wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Shane B wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Here you go, debt currently at $238 billion.

http://aofm.gov.au/

That isn't what I asked.

You're comparing today's debt against past debt without any adjustment whatsoever and then claiming that debt today is at RECORD levels. That was your claim. And that's just plain WRONG.

Here, try this one instead. This one from Treasury http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1496/PDF/01_Debt.pdf shows debt is nowhere near record levels historically.

The chart isn't very current. It's now near 18 per cent of GDP if you use the gross debt measure presented in that chart.

The Government's preferred measure is net debt.

Yeah, sorry. I didn't put it together I just quoted them. Even at 18% it's nowhere near the record levels you were claiming.

Shane B wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:25pm:

Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:19pm:

PS. You'll notice that, unlike some of you lot, I didn't need to be asked for a link...

You were asking for one earlier, so I gave you one bubby.

My comment was really aimed at some of the others. More at the serial liars out there...

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"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick Reply #22 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:55pm Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:19pm: PS. You'll notice that, unlike some of you lot, I didn't need to be asked for a link... Hey, you got a link to that acquisition BTW do you have a chart for us people living in the now. That would be nice.
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gold_medal

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Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick
Reply #23 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:31pm

Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:44pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:34pm:

Try the public records from treasury. The previous debt ceiling of $250B had to be raised in the last session of parliament because the current budget estimates that debt will approximate $300B this financial year.

So look it up or remain as ignorant as the aver labor supporter who seems to think that soemhow Howard had more debt than keating or that Costello had more debt than Rudd.

So you're talking about an absolute number. No adjustment there for inflation or anything else. As I asked in my question to Sean.

It really cracks me up that you accuse me constantly for lacking comprehension while all the while being completely incapable of understanding anything anyone says.

simple mathematics 1.04^20*96B comes up with $219B in todays terms - still a record. However that is giving an incredibly generous 4% annual CPI when it has in fact been well below that for most of the last 20 years since Keating made his massive debt.

Try again.

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gold_medal

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Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick
Reply #24 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:34pm

Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Shane B wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Here you go, debt currently at $238 billion.

http://aofm.gov.au/

That isn't what I asked.

You're comparing today's debt against past debt without any adjustment whatsoever and then claiming that debt today is at RECORD levels. That was your claim. And that's just plain WRONG.

Here, try this one instead. This one from Treasury http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1496/PDF/01_Debt.pdf shows debt is nowhere near record levels historically.

What a classic.. using a graph from the HOWARD era to try and prove that Rudd/Gillard dont have much debt.

What were those two degrees in, Gist? Dance and Womens studies?

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gold_medal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3897 Gender:	Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick Reply #25 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:35pm Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:19pm: PS. You'll notice that, unlike some of you lot, I didn't need to be asked for a link... Only an accurate one...
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Gist

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Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick
Reply #26 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:47pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:34pm:

Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Shane B wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Here you go, debt currently at $238 billion.

http://aofm.gov.au/

That isn't what I asked.

You're comparing today's debt against past debt without any adjustment whatsoever and then claiming that debt today is at RECORD levels. That was your claim. And that's just plain WRONG.

Here, try this one instead. This one from Treasury http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1496/PDF/01_Debt.pdf shows debt is nowhere near record levels historically.

What a classic.. using a graph from the HOWARD era to try and prove that Rudd/Gillard dont have much debt.

What were those two degrees in, Gist? Dance and Womens studies?

Do I have to spoon feed you every step of the way? Go look in the Treasury reports if you want something more recent than 2008. You [b]do[b] know how to do that don't you? Or are you still waiting for that high school kid to come back to you with the explanation of the ether theory so he can run a google search for you?

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"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

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Gist

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Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick
Reply #27 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:50pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:31pm:

Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:44pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:34pm:

Try the public records from treasury. The previous debt ceiling of $250B had to be raised in the last session of parliament because the current budget estimates that debt will approximate $300B this financial year.

So look it up or remain as ignorant as the aver labor supporter who seems to think that soemhow Howard had more debt than keating or that Costello had more debt than Rudd.

So you're talking about an absolute number. No adjustment there for inflation or anything else. As I asked in my question to Sean.

It really cracks me up that you accuse me constantly for lacking comprehension while all the while being completely incapable of understanding anything anyone says.

simple mathematics 1.04^20*96B comes up with $219B in todays terms - still a record. However that is giving an incredibly generous 4% annual CPI when it has in fact been well below that for most of the last 20 years since Keating made his massive debt.

Try again.

96*1.04^20 is actually 210 billion by my calculator but what's a few billion here or there eh? Now be a good lad and document the 96 billion.

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"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

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gold_medal

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Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick
Reply #28 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:52pm

Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:47pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:34pm:

Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Shane B wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:46pm:

Here you go, debt currently at $238 billion.

http://aofm.gov.au/

That isn't what I asked.

You're comparing today's debt against past debt without any adjustment whatsoever and then claiming that debt today is at RECORD levels. That was your claim. And that's just plain WRONG.

Here, try this one instead. This one from Treasury http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1496/PDF/01_Debt.pdf shows debt is nowhere near record levels historically.

What a classic.. using a graph from the HOWARD era to try and prove that Rudd/Gillard dont have much debt.

What were those two degrees in, Gist? Dance and Womens studies?

Do I have to spoon feed you every step of the way? Go look in the Treasury reports if you want something more recent than 2008. You [b]do[b] know how to do that don't you? Or are you still waiting for that high school kid to come back to you with the explanation of the ether theory so he can run a google search for you?

You mean the treasury reports that show current govt net debt at $238B??? or the CPI calculation that shows that it is record debt?

What is it about you and basic maths? And while I grant that using exponentiation is a high school maths level, it is far from difficult. Or are you going to pretend now that $238B is LESS than $96B or that even with generous indexation that $238B is less than $210B?

And lets not forget that net debt is rising $2B a month still. So there is still plenty of room for the debt ceiling to be breached.

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gold_medal

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Re: NT Labor gives Gillard the flick
Reply #29 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:53pm

Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:50pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:31pm:

Gist wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:44pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:34pm:

Try the public records from treasury. The previous debt ceiling of $250B had to be raised in the last session of parliament because the current budget estimates that debt will approximate $300B this financial year.

So look it up or remain as ignorant as the aver labor supporter who seems to think that soemhow Howard had more debt than keating or that Costello had more debt than Rudd.

So you're talking about an absolute number. No adjustment there for inflation or anything else. As I asked in my question to Sean.

It really cracks me up that you accuse me constantly for lacking comprehension while all the while being completely incapable of understanding anything anyone says.

simple mathematics 1.04^20*96B comes up with $219B in todays terms - still a record. However that is giving an incredibly generous 4% annual CPI when it has in fact been well below that for most of the last 20 years since Keating made his massive debt.

Try again.

96*1.04^20 is actually 210 billion by my calculator but what's a few billion here or there eh? Now be a good lad and document the 96 billion.

yep you are correct except of course it makes my argument stronger.

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