Australian Politics Forum - Climate change scaremongering goes to waste

MOTR

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Re: Climate change scaremongering goes to waste
Reply #30 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 9:05pm

progressiveslol wrote on Aug 7^th, 2012 at 10:04am:

Here is something for you to ponder. Dont expect any science from mr hansom, unless ignoring the past and cherry picking data is your thing.

Jonathan Overpeck, Professor, Department of Geosciences and the Department of Atmospheric Sciences, Co-director of the Institute of the Environment at the University of Arizona, Tucson.

The droughts that are occurring this year on the Great Plains are a true calamity, but to blame them on a “greenhouse gas” mediated “greenhouse effect” is improper from a scientific point of view, since the “greenhouse effect” is hypothetical warming said to be caused primarily by water vapor and droughts are caused by a lack of water vapor. Therefore, droughts and the “greenhouse effect” cannot occupy the same space at the same time—one requires the presence of water vapor and the other requires its absence

http://johnosullivan.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/the-greenhouse-effect-and-droughts...

The subject of this article is whether or not such droughts can be caused by a water vapor mediated “greenhouse effect.” According to the “greenhouse effect” hypothesis itself the “greenhouse effect” requires the presence of water vapor to operate. That is, water vapor not only accounts for the majority of the primary “greenhouse warming” in the atmosphere (60-90% depending upon the author) but it also, via “positive water vapor feedback,” is responsible for the much of the hypothetical warming caused by secondary “greenhouse gases” such as carbon dioxide. So, where there is little or no water vapor there can be little or no greenhouse effect. Take, for example the precipitous nighttime cooling seen in a desert mentioned by John Tyndall:
“Whenever the air is dry we are liable to daily extremes of temperature. By day in such places, the sun’s heat reaches the earth unimpeded and renders the maximum high; by night on the other hand the earth’s heat escapes unhindered into space and renders the minimum low. Hence the difference between the maximum and minimum is greatest where the air is driest.
“In the plains of India, on the heights of the Himalaya, in Central Asia, in Australia—wherever drought reigns, we have the heat of day forcibly contrasted with the chill of night. In the Sahara itself, when the sun’s rays cease to impinge on the burning soil the temperature runs rapidly down to freezing, because there is no vapour overhead to check the calorific drain.”

Tyndall, John, On radiation: The “Rede” lecture, delivered in the Senate-house before the University of Cambridge, England, on Tuesday, May 16, 1865
a) Little or no water vapor = little or no greenhouse effect
b) Little or no water vapor = drought

Ergo: droughts cannot possibly be caused by the “greenhouse effect” since the “greenhouse effect” is a hypothetical effect caused primarily by water vapor. Where there is enough water vapor in the air to cause said hypothetical “greenhouse effect” then there will be no drought, because it will be cloudy and rainy instead. Ergo, droughts and the “greenhouse effect” are mutually exclusive. Droughts are, in fact, caused by a “greenhouse gas” deficit, i.e., not enough water vapor in the air!

Progs, are you sure you want to go with this?

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Climate change scaremongering goes to waste Reply #31 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 12:54am Are you going to explain why you posted this rubbish, progs. Or are you just jumping on anything you can find that reaches te same conclusion as you.
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progressiveslol

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Re: Climate change scaremongering goes to waste
Reply #32 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:03am

MOTR wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 12:54am:

Are you going to explain why you posted this rubbish, progs. Or are you just jumping on anything you can find that reaches te same conclusion as you.

I might have taken some lessons from hansen, I might not have. I am not in the position to give out such information.

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MOTR

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Re: Climate change scaremongering goes to waste
Reply #33 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:30am

progressiveslol wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:03am:

MOTR wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 12:54am:

Are you going to explain why you posted this rubbish, progs. Or are you just jumping on anything you can find that reaches te same conclusion as you.

I might have taken some lessons from hansen, I might not have. I am not in the position to give out such information.

OK, progs. Can you just clear your post up to make it clear that this foolishness has nothing to do with Jonathan Overpeck.

Quote:

Horrendous wildfires. Oppressive heat waves. Devastating droughts. Flooding from giant deluges. And a powerful freak wind storm called a derecho. These are the kinds of extremes climate scientists have predicted will come with climate change, although it's far too early to say that is the cause. Nor will they say global warming is the reason 3,215 daily high temperature records were set in the month of June.

Scientifically linking individual weather events to climate change takes intensive study, complicated mathematics, computer models and lots of time. Sometimes it isn't caused by global warming. Weather is always variable; freak things happen. And this weather has been local. Europe, Asia and Africa aren't having similar disasters now, although they've had their own extreme events in recent years.

But since at least 1988, climate scientists have warned that climate change would bring, in general, increased heat waves, more droughts, more sudden downpours, more widespread wildfires and worsening storms.

In the United States, those extremes are happening here and now. So far this year, more than 2.1 million acres (850,000 hectares) have burned in wildfires, more than 113 million people in the U.S. were in areas under extreme heat advisories last Friday, two-thirds of the country is experiencing drought, and earlier in June, deluges flooded Minnesota and Florida.

"This is what global warming looks like at the regional or personal level," said Jonathan Overpeck, professor of geosciences and atmospheric sciences at the University of Arizona. "The extra heat increases the odds of worse heat waves, droughts, storms and wildfire. This is certainly what I and many other climate scientists have been warning about."

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« Last Edit: Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:37am by MOTR »

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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progressiveslol

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Re: Climate change scaremongering goes to waste
Reply #34 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 7:12am

MOTR wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:30am:

progressiveslol wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:03am:

MOTR wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 12:54am:

Are you going to explain why you posted this rubbish, progs. Or are you just jumping on anything you can find that reaches te same conclusion as you.

I might have taken some lessons from hansen, I might not have. I am not in the position to give out such information.

OK, progs. Can you just clear your post up to make it clear that this foolishness has nothing to do with Jonathan Overpeck.

Quote:

Horrendous wildfires. Oppressive heat waves. Devastating droughts. Flooding from giant deluges. And a powerful freak wind storm called a derecho. These are the kinds of extremes climate scientists have predicted will come with climate change, although it's far too early to say that is the cause. Nor will they say global warming is the reason 3,215 daily high temperature records were set in the month of June.

Scientifically linking individual weather events to climate change takes intensive study, complicated mathematics, computer models and lots of time. Sometimes it isn't caused by global warming. Weather is always variable; freak things happen. And this weather has been local. Europe, Asia and Africa aren't having similar disasters now, although they've had their own extreme events in recent years.

But since at least 1988, climate scientists have warned that climate change would bring, in general, increased heat waves, more droughts, more sudden downpours, more widespread wildfires and worsening storms.

In the United States, those extremes are happening here and now. So far this year, more than 2.1 million acres (850,000 hectares) have burned in wildfires, more than 113 million people in the U.S. were in areas under extreme heat advisories last Friday, two-thirds of the country is experiencing drought, and earlier in June, deluges flooded Minnesota and Florida.

"This is what global warming looks like at the regional or personal level," said Jonathan Overpeck, professor of geosciences and atmospheric sciences at the University of Arizona. "The extra heat increases the odds of worse heat waves, droughts, storms and wildfire. This is certainly what I and many other climate scientists have been warning about."

I just cherry picked a nice stable range of the article and attributed that range to be somewhat of a representation of a different part of the article. (hansen taught).

It would be up to someone else to figure out that the range used, is not actually representitive of anything except itself if the whole of the article was taken into consideration.

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