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Is Greenland close to a tipping point? (Read 6778 times)
Upton Sinclair
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Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Aug 4th, 2012 at 12:39pm
 
Is Greenland close to a climate tipping point?

Recent findings suggest climate change in Greenland may be approaching a tipping point, beyond which amplifying feedbacks could lead (probably over centuries) to complete melting of the ice sheet, raising sea level by about 7 meters.

In June, a team of glaciologists led by Jason Box predicted that we would see melting across 100% of the ice sheet’s surface area in summer within a decade (Box et al., in press). They drew that conclusion from data on the Greenland ice sheet’s surface reflectivity, or “albedo”, showing the surface has gotten darker over the last 12 years. A darker surface absorbs more heat, leading to more melting, causing albedo to decrease further, and so on in a vicious circle.

The ice naturally gets less reflective in summer because the shape of the snowflakes changes and meltwater reveals impurities beneath the surface, but in 2012 Greenland has become much darker than in previous summers. This is occurring particularly at high elevations, which were previously too cold to melt and indeed had gained ice from increasing snowfall. This month, at the height of the melt season, Greenland’s albedo has fallen far off the charts:

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Figure 1: Surface albedo of the Greenland ice sheet (average of all elevations) between March and October in each year from 2000 to 2012. (Source: Ohio State University, 2012)

Then NASA satellites recorded a startling abrupt acceleration of melting over just four days. On 8 July, about 40% of the ice sheet’s area had surface melt. By 12 July, surface melt had spread to no less than 97% of the area, penetrating all the way to the centre of Greenland, three kilometers above sea level:

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Figure 2: Map of Greenland showing the area experiencing surface melt on 8 July (left) and on 12 July (right). (Source: NASA, 2012)

“This was so extraordinary that at first I questioned the result: was this real or was it due to a data error?” said Son Nghiem of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory. The melting has been confirmed by independent measurements, and attributed to a warm air mass sitting over Greenland during that week. Ice cores show this to be a 1-in-150-year event.

It is not yet clear whether this single occurence is indicative of a trend; a year with greater snowfall could return the albedo to a more normal state. Nevertheless, the extraordinary events of recent weeks are cause for concern when considered in the context of Greenland’s ice melting at an accelerating rate for the last decade, losing more than 2 trillion tonnes in total:

...
Figure 3: Greenland ice sheet mass relative to the 2002-2011 average.

According to recent modeling (Robinson et al, 2012), the tipping point for eventual total melting of the Greenland ice sheet could be a global temperature of around 1.6°C above preindustrial. Worse, the lower end of the range of possibilities is only 0.8°C, equal to today’s global temperature.

There is broader evidence that no significant cushion remains between today’s climate and a dangerous level of warming. In the last interglacial age 125,000 years ago, called the Eemian, global temperature was only ~1°C warmer than preindustrial, ie. only a couple of tenths of a degree warmer than today (Hansen et al., in press). Yet the poles were several degrees warmer, there was no summer sea ice in the Arctic, and multiple studies using different methodologies (Kopp et al., 2009; Dutton & Lambeck, 2012) say sea level was 6-9 meters higher (meaning at least partial melting of the Greenland and/or West Antarctic ice sheets).

All this points to the conclusion we may already be getting close to a dangerous level of global warming. If humanity rapidly cuts global CO2 emissions to zero or near-zero, it might be possible to return the Earth to energy balance and prevent much further warming (Hansen et al., in press). If business-as-usual emissions continue for much longer, there is a risk that eventual melting of the Greenland ice sheet could become irreversible.
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namnugenot
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #1 - Aug 4th, 2012 at 2:47pm
 
Iceland has been free of ice many times and yet voila currently it has ice as yet to melt. It either will or it won't. On the happy side if it melts you can say "I told you so" as to the event, as to the cause we can continue to speculate on the available evidence. No doubt there are tipping points but in any large poorly understood complex system there are also negative feedbacks. For example higher temperatures causing through these interactions ultimately climate reverses...ie cooling.
Jimmy crack corn and I don't care either way but I will observe with great interest even if....gasp....nothing happens.  Smiley
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #2 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 7:31am
 
namnugenot wrote on Aug 4th, 2012 at 2:47pm:
Iceland has been free of ice many times and yet voila currently it has ice as yet to melt. It either will or it won't. On the happy side if it melts you can say "I told you so" as to the event, as to the cause we can continue to speculate on the available evidence. No doubt there are tipping points but in any large poorly understood complex system there are also negative feedbacks. For example higher temperatures causing through these interactions ultimately climate reverses...ie cooling.
Jimmy crack corn and I don't care either way but I will observe with great interest even if....gasp....nothing happens.  Smiley


Why are you talking about Iceland?  It has a relatively temperate climate, or it did.
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« Last Edit: Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:14am by muso »  

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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #3 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 8:08am
 
muso wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 7:31am:
namnugenot wrote on Aug 4th, 2012 at 2:47pm:
Iceland has been free of ice many times and yet voila currently it has ice as yet to melt. It either will or it won't. On the happy side if it melts you can say "I told you so" as to the event, as to the cause we can continue to speculate on the available evidence. No doubt there are tipping points but in any large poorly understood complex system there are also negative feedbacks. For example higher temperatures causing through these interactions ultimately climate reverses...ie cooling.
Jimmy crack corn and I don't care either way but I will observe with great interest even if....gasp....nothing happens.  Smiley


Why are you talking about Iceland?  It has a relatively temperate climate, or it did.


My bad...slip of the pen...scratch Ice sub Green  Smiley
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #4 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 9:38am
 
namnugenot wrote on Aug 4th, 2012 at 2:47pm:
Iceland has been free of ice many times and yet voila currently it has ice as yet to melt. It either will or it won't. On the happy side if it melts you can say "I told you so" as to the event, as to the cause we can continue to speculate on the available evidence. No doubt there are tipping points but in any large poorly understood complex system there are also negative feedbacks. For example higher temperatures causing through these interactions ultimately climate reverses...ie cooling.
Jimmy crack corn and I don't care either way but I will observe with great interest even if....gasp....nothing happens.  Smiley


Which negative feedbacks are going to stop the climate from shifting beyond our comfort zone.
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #5 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 9:41am
 
namnugenot wrote on Aug 4th, 2012 at 2:47pm:
Iceland has been free of ice many times and yet voila currently it has ice as yet to melt. It either will or it won't. On the happy side if it melts you can say "I told you so" as to the event, as to the cause we can continue to speculate on the available evidence. No doubt there are tipping points but in any large poorly understood complex system there are also negative feedbacks. For example higher temperatures causing through these interactions ultimately climate reverses...ie cooling.
Jimmy crack corn and I don't care either way but I will observe with great interest even if....gasp....nothing happens.  Smiley


Too cool for school.
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #6 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 10:08am
 
MOTR wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 9:38am:
[quote author=28272B28332123282932460 link=1344047982/1#1 date=1344055634]

Which negative feedbacks are going to stop the climate from shifting beyond our comfort zone.


God  Grin
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #7 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 6:18pm
 
MOTR wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 9:38am:
namnugenot wrote on Aug 4th, 2012 at 2:47pm:
Iceland has been free of ice many times and yet voila currently it has ice as yet to melt. It either will or it won't. On the happy side if it melts you can say "I told you so" as to the event, as to the cause we can continue to speculate on the available evidence. No doubt there are tipping points but in any large poorly understood complex system there are also negative feedbacks. For example higher temperatures causing through these interactions ultimately climate reverses...ie cooling.
Jimmy crack corn and I don't care either way but I will observe with great interest even if....gasp....nothing happens.  Smiley


Which negative feedbacks are going to stop the climate from shifting beyond our comfort zone.


I have no idea what your idea of a "comfort zone" is quantified by so you will need to provide specifications.
In any case what action currently being undertaken on your guesstimation or speculation will prevent climate from departing from that comfort zone?
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #8 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 6:35pm
 
MOTR wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 9:41am:
namnugenot wrote on Aug 4th, 2012 at 2:47pm:
Iceland has been free of ice many times and yet voila currently it has ice as yet to melt. It either will or it won't. On the happy side if it melts you can say "I told you so" as to the event, as to the cause we can continue to speculate on the available evidence. No doubt there are tipping points but in any large poorly understood complex system there are also negative feedbacks. For example higher temperatures causing through these interactions ultimately climate reverses...ie cooling.
Jimmy crack corn and I don't care either way but I will observe with great interest even if....gasp....nothing happens.  Smiley


Too cool for school.


Well...I didn't finish High School and failed subjects regularly when I attended. I was a great disappointment to my mother and my teachers but otherwise my formative years were quite a lot of fun.

Since then however I have managed to scrape up two university degrees without failing a unit... So thank you for your concern as to my intellectual shortcomings.
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #9 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 6:59pm
 
namnugenot wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 6:35pm:
MOTR wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 9:41am:
namnugenot wrote on Aug 4th, 2012 at 2:47pm:
Iceland has been free of ice many times and yet voila currently it has ice as yet to melt. It either will or it won't. On the happy side if it melts you can say "I told you so" as to the event, as to the cause we can continue to speculate on the available evidence. No doubt there are tipping points but in any large poorly understood complex system there are also negative feedbacks. For example higher temperatures causing through these interactions ultimately climate reverses...ie cooling.
Jimmy crack corn and I don't care either way but I will observe with great interest even if....gasp....nothing happens.  Smiley


Too cool for school.


Well...I didn't finish High School and failed subjects regularly when I attended. I was a great disappointment to my mother and my teachers but otherwise my formative years were quite a lot of fun.

Since then however I have managed to scrape up two university degrees without failing a unit... So thank you for your concern as to my intellectual shortcomings.


I wasn't commenting on your educational achievements or your intellectual shortcomings. I was commenting on your hubris. If you are too cool for school you know everything to the point where it can harm you or work against you.

Perhaps, when it gets hotter, you can use your origami skills to turn  those two degrees into a paper fan.
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« Last Edit: Aug 5th, 2012 at 7:12pm by MOTR »  

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #10 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 7:07pm
 
As for quantifying our comfort zone, I'd say we are just starting to breach it. We are heading into unknown territory with additional warming still in the system and with more CO2 generating another cycle of warming. We can't stop the warming already in the system but we can limit the amount of additional warming by reducing our emmissions of CO2.

http://www.columbia.edu/%7Ejeh1/mailings/2011/20110118_MilankovicPaper.pdf
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« Last Edit: Aug 5th, 2012 at 7:15pm by MOTR »  

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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Upton Sinclair
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #11 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 7:26pm
 
MOTR wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 7:07pm:
As for quantifying our comfort zone, I'd say we are just starting to breach it. We are heading into unknown territory with additional warming still in the system and with more CO2 generating another cycle of warming. We can't stop the warming already in the system but we can limit the amount of additional warming by reducing our emmissions of CO2.

http://www.columbia.edu/%7Ejeh1/mailings/2011/20110118_MilankovicPaper.pdf


I'd quantify it by reference to the Holocene Optimum and the conditions which prevailed throughout the entire history of human civilisation, i.e. the climatic conditions to which our civilisation has evolved.
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #12 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 7:52pm
 
MOTR wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 6:59pm:
namnugenot wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 6:35pm:
MOTR wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 9:41am:
namnugenot wrote on Aug 4th, 2012 at 2:47pm:
Iceland has been free of ice many times and yet voila currently it has ice as yet to melt. It either will or it won't. On the happy side if it melts you can say "I told you so" as to the event, as to the cause we can continue to speculate on the available evidence. No doubt there are tipping points but in any large poorly understood complex system there are also negative feedbacks. For example higher temperatures causing through these interactions ultimately climate reverses...ie cooling.
Jimmy crack corn and I don't care either way but I will observe with great interest even if....gasp....nothing happens.  Smiley


Too cool for school.


Well...I didn't finish High School and failed subjects regularly when I attended. I was a great disappointment to my mother and my teachers but otherwise my formative years were quite a lot of fun.

Since then however I have managed to scrape up two university degrees without failing a unit... So thank you for your concern as to my intellectual shortcomings.


I wasn't commenting on your educational achievements or your intellectual shortcomings. I was commenting on your hubris. If you are too cool for school you know everything to the point where it can harm you or work against you.


Sorry I took you literally.

But I don't know everything but I like to learn as much as I can.
Not sure of what point you are trying to make. Is this analogous to I don't know if there is a God, or in fact many Gods, or if there is a hell, if I am wrong as to the existence or identity of any deity I could burn in hell. That would be a consequence of my intellectual position.
What point I was trying to make is that it does not matter if I or you are wrong or right the decisions that are made, are made regardless and the consequences of those decisions will occur irrespective of whatever position we align ourselves to. The harm or otherwise I suffer is independent of my, or your, level of knowledge. Hence it is futile for me to care one way or another.
It is my choice to not bow low to your God no matter how fervent your evangelistic belief.
I am not a denier because you apply a standard of proof that pulls up short.

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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #13 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 8:04pm
 
Civilisation?...again not sure of which you are talking about, western, eastern,.... Which particular civilisation having gained it's place through the slaughter of it's predecessor are we talking about. the Holocene also encompasses both periods hotter than now and ice age conditions. So you are saying we can cherry pick the temperature to world should be at? Bearing in mind the average for this period is considerably cooler than it is now.
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #14 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 8:09pm
 
MOTR still not sure of what you mean by "comfort zone" and whether this is quantifiable? An Inuit may have a different idea of comfort to say a Dogon tribesman.
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