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Is Greenland close to a tipping point? (Read 6776 times)
MOTR
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #15 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 10:44pm
 
namnugenot wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 8:09pm:
MOTR still not sure of what you mean by "comfort zone" and whether this is quantifiable? An Inuit may have a different idea of comfort to say a Dogon tribesman.   


Global warming can't be linked to a specific extreme weather event. However, we can see how the dice have been loaded. millions have already been adversely affected by this increase is extreme weather events.

...
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #16 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 11:05pm
 
MOTR wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 10:44pm:
namnugenot wrote on Aug 5th, 2012 at 8:09pm:
MOTR still not sure of what you mean by "comfort zone" and whether this is quantifiable? An Inuit may have a different idea of comfort to say a Dogon tribesman.   


Global warming can't be linked to a specific extreme weather event. However, we can see how the dice have been loaded. millions have already been adversely affected by this increase is extreme weather events.

http://openparachute.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/hansen-1.jpg

Except, even your beloved IPCC says 'Climate models are unable to predict extreme events because they lack spatial and temporal resolution. In addition, there is no clear evidence that sustained or worldwide changes in extreme events have occurred in the past few decades'

But of course then go on to say the same ol BS

http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/sres/regional/index.php?idp=232

There is no link to extreme weather event ans CO2. Do you have the data that says extreme weather events are more common now, are greater in intensity now or do you just have lives lost and cost and trying to use that as a "more = worse"?
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namnugenot
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #17 - Aug 5th, 2012 at 11:27pm
 
IPCC says "...there is no clear evidence that sustained or worldwide changes in extreme events have occurred in the past few decades"

Oh dear...
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MOTR
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #18 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 6:24am
 
^ I see you still think you're on top of everything.

Watch out for the next report.

http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2011/20111110_NewClimateDice.pdf

"Our analysis shows that it is no longer enough to say that global warming will increase the likelihood of extreme weather and to repeat the caveat that no individual weather event can be directly linked to climate change. To the contrary, our analysis shows that, for the extreme hot weather of the recent past, there is virtually no explanation other than climate change."

The study, which was published by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, looks at the past six decades of global temperatures and finds what Hansen described as a "stunning" rise in the frequency of extremely hot summers.
It compared what is happening now to what was happening between 1951-1980. In those years, extremely hot temperatures covered less than 0.2% of the planet. Now, those temperatures cover about 10% of the land area, the study said.

It dismissed the idea that specific weather patterns are by themselves sufficient to explain today's extreme anomalies. Phenomena like La Nina have always been around, but large areas of extreme warming have only come about with climate change, the study said.

"The odds that natural variability created these extremes are minuscule, vanishingly small. To count on those odds would be like quitting your job and playing the lottery every morning to pay the bills," wrote Hansen.

Hansen directs research at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies.


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« Last Edit: Aug 6th, 2012 at 6:37am by MOTR »  

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #19 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 6:32am
 
MOTR wrote on Aug 6th, 2012 at 6:24am:
^ I see you still think you're on top of everything.

Watch out for the next report.

http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2011/20111110_NewClimateDice.pdf

"Our analysis shows that it is no longer enough to say that global warming will increase the likelihood of extreme weather and to repeat the caveat that no individual weather event can be directly linked to climate change. To the contrary, our analysis shows that, for the extreme hot weather of the recent past, there is virtually no explanation other than climate change."

The study, which was published by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, looks at the past six decades of global temperatures and finds what Hansen described as a "stunning" rise in the frequency of extremely hot summers.
It compared what is happening now to what was happening between 1951-1980. In those years, extremely hot temperatures covered less than 0.2% of the planet. Now, those temperatures cover about 10% of the land area, the study said.

It dismissed the idea that specific weather patterns are by themselves sufficient to explain today's extreme anomalies. Phenomena like La Nina have always been around, but large areas of extreme warming have only come about with climate change, the study said.

"The odds that natural variability created these extremes are minuscule, vanishingly small. To count on those odds would be like quitting your job and playing the lottery every morning to pay the bills," wrote Hansen.

Hansen directs research at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies.



They wouldnt say that or use that, they will be looked at as a laughing stock. They are just putting it out there to see if they can get away with their non-scientific political spin.

1930's is yelling at them saying youhoo, over here. There is good reason they dont want to go from the 30's. Non-scientific IPCC using mr hansom.
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MOTR
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #20 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 6:38am
 
It comes from a peer reviewed paper, progs. Just because their conclusions dont fit with your smug view of the world doesn't mean the rest of us are going to ignore them.

Are you talking about the US dust bowl drought of the 1930s, an environmental disaster that was as much about poor land use practices as the meteorological conditions that precipitated it.
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« Last Edit: Aug 6th, 2012 at 6:49am by MOTR »  

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #21 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 6:45am
 
Did the peer-reviewed paper look at the 1930's. If not, then it may be right according to such a cherry picked timeframe, but not right overall.

Do they know the history of greenland?

They would do well to look it up before they are laughed at.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland
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MOTR
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #22 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 6:52am
 
progressiveslol wrote on Aug 6th, 2012 at 6:45am:
Did the peer-reviewed paper look at the 1930's. If not, then it may be right according to such a cherry picked timeframe, but not right overall.

Do they know the history of greenland?

They would do well to look it up before they are laughed at.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland


Going back to the 1930s wouldn't make any difference to a global study such as this. How about you read the paper first, progs.
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« Last Edit: Aug 6th, 2012 at 6:57am by MOTR »  

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #23 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 7:14am
 
Maybe it is time to pull all mr hansoms political predictions, seeing as he thinks the 30's is more likely an anomoly, yet recently it is just co2.
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MOTR
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #24 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 7:31am
 
It's about rare weather events becoming more common. Pointing to similar events in the past does not counter this argument. We all know these things happened, but why are they happening more frequently today.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #25 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 7:44am
 
mr hansom said

Empirical evidence does not lend much support to the notion that climate is headed precipitately toward more extreme heat and drought. The drought of 1999 covered a smaller area than the 1988 drought, when the Mississippi almost dried up. And 1988 was a temporary inconvenience as compared with repeated droughts during the 1930s “Dust Bowl” that caused an exodus from the prairies, as chronicled in Steinbeck’s Grapes of Wrath.

Now with that statement, now being cooler than the 1930's, how the hell can he come up with this new crap.
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namnugenot
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #26 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 8:47am
 
Are these events actually more common?
They are certainly much better covered by the now global media where in the past it would get little coverage if at all or even ever known about.
Example we would have probably never heard of the 1976 Tangshan Earthquake that initially reportedly killed 1 million and later revised down to about 250,000, had our then former PM not been there in China at the time judging from the coverage at the time.
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MOTR
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #27 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 7:43pm
 
namnugenot wrote on Aug 6th, 2012 at 8:47am:
Are these events actually more common?
They are certainly much better covered by the now global media where in the past it would get little coverage if at all or even ever known about.
Example we would have probably never heard of the 1976 Tangshan Earthquake that initially reportedly killed 1 million and later revised down to about 250,000, had our then former PM not been there in China at the time judging from the coverage at the time.


What makes you think this hasn't been investigated using scientific methods.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #28 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 7:46pm
 
MOTR wrote on Aug 6th, 2012 at 7:43pm:
namnugenot wrote on Aug 6th, 2012 at 8:47am:
Are these events actually more common?
They are certainly much better covered by the now global media where in the past it would get little coverage if at all or even ever known about.
Example we would have probably never heard of the 1976 Tangshan Earthquake that initially reportedly killed 1 million and later revised down to about 250,000, had our then former PM not been there in China at the time judging from the coverage at the time.


What makes you think this hasn't been investigated using scientific methods.

Where is the data to that scientific method. Hansoms head.
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MOTR
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Re: Is Greenland close to a tipping point?
Reply #29 - Aug 6th, 2012 at 7:51pm
 
I linked the paper. What are your specific problems?
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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