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Freemasonry on Trial (Read 468959 times)
Bobby.
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #960 - Mar 23rd, 2013 at 10:17pm
 
Dear Karnal,
you're entitled to your opinion & I'm entitled to mine.

Admit however that the practices, symbols & ceremonies of the Catholic church are a bit creepy?

- also your lack of higher knowledge which master Light possesses.
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Dirty Paki Khunt
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #961 - Mar 23rd, 2013 at 11:40pm
 
If the Light had any higher knowledge, he wouldn’t post false prophesies, fake trials, and the most vain assertions on this site.

European coats of arms and emblems follow similar patterns and designs. The practices, symbols and ceremonies of all archaic organisations are creepy. Recently, sexual abuse in Tibetan Buddhist monestaries has been exposed. And these are the darlings of so-called new age ideology and fantasy.

Is the Dali Llama a Freemasonic alien lizzard?

The Light presents such "evidence" above as forensic. He believes this is enough to make a conviction. Not only that, he pretends to believe such a trial is actually underway somewhere - in a universal jurisdiction. He doesn’t mean the laws of karma or any universal law, the Light asserts that hidden forces are actually being exposed, tried and punished somewhere in this world as we speak.

You know, Lizzie and Ratsinger’s 25 year internet sentence. Pope Francis’ indictment for a "connection to" some crime committed in Argentina sometime by anyone.

65 pages and the Light hasn’t exposed a thing.

If you can truthfully rebut the above statement, I will leave this thread for good.

Until then - forgiven.
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Dirty Paki Khunt
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #962 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 12:33am
 
One more thing: I was deeply shocked when I read about sexual abuse in Tibetan Buddhist monestaries. This was not a comfortable truth in any way. It rocked many of my own previously held convictions about spirituality and, well, humans.

Facts are truth. You don’t make up the facts to suit the truth. You discern the truth from facts - often deeply disturbing facts.

I was once a year and a half into a Traditional Chinese Medicine degree when I discovered certain truths about acupuncture. I found 7 years of research proving it to be no more effective for back pain than placebo. Back pain is what most people receive acupuncture for. It’s how most acupuncturists make their money, covered under private health funds.

My decision was made when I read the Australian Chinese Medicine journal spin the research in a positive light - acupuncture works in 20 something percent of cases!

I left the course and put over a year of intensive anatomical, medical and Chinese learning down to an experience. Other students stayed and, no doubt, have gone on to spending their days performing a treatment that would get the same results if they just pretended to stick the needles in.

Facts are truth.
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it_is_the_light
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #963 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 5:12am
 
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Mar 23rd, 2013 at 9:59pm:
Not only is he revealling darkness within, he’s revealling things that aren’t things, images that aren’t images, and facts that aren’t facts. Clever, eh?

The Jesuit Order has nothing to do with Freemasonry. You can’t make it so by playing games with Photoshop. This only shows how desperate the Light is to make a connection. He’ll say anything, post anything - he won’t even read it first.

If you can show me any historical connection between the Jesuits and Freemasonry, I will self-immolate and leave thisthread. In that order (in linear time).


jesuits are top level freemasons

at the very top of the apex and

4th dimensional conduits...and now

a jesuit has reached the papacy out in the open

for all to see.

you know very little of this topic,

bon voyage again..

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesuits.htm

The Jesuits are a Military Religious Order of the Roman Catholic Church

The Oath administered to the Illuminati is based upon the Oath of the Jesuits

Before the Oath is administered it is said -- a sword is pointed at the breast:

"Shouldst thou become a traitor or perjurer, let this sword remind thee of each and all the members in arms against thee. Do not hope to find safety; whithersoever thou mayest fly, shame and remorse as well as the vengeance of thine unknown brothers will torture and pursue thee."

Then in the Oath which follows he swears:

". . . Eternal silence, and faithfulness and everlasting obedience to all superiors and regulations of the Order. I also renounce my own personal views and opinions as well as all control of my powers and capacities. I promise also to consider the well-being of the Order as my own, and I am ready, as long as I am a member, to serve it with my goods, my honour, and my life . . . If I act against the rules and well-being of the Society, I will submit myself to the penalties to which my superiors may condemn me . . ."

"In the name of the son crucified (i.e. the Pentagram, the illuminised man), swear to break the bonds which still bind you to your father, mother, brothers, sisters, wife, relatives, friends, mistresses, kings, chiefs, benefactors, and all persons to whomsoever you may have promised faith, obedience, and service. Name and curse the place where you were born, so that you may dwell in another sphere, to which you will attain only after having renounced this pestilential globe, vile refuse of the heavens! From this moment you are free from the so-called oath to country and laws: swear to reveal to the new chief, recognised by you, what you may have seen or done, intercepted, read or heard, learned or surmised, and also seek for and spy out what your eyes cannot discern. Honour and respect the Aqua Tofana (i.e. an imperceptably slow poison) as a sure, prompt, and necessary means of purging the globe by death of those who seek to vilify the truth and sieze it from our hands. Fly from Spain, Naples, and all accursed land; finally fly from the temptation to reveal what you may hear, for the thunder is no prompter that the knife, which awaits you in whatsoever place you may be. Live in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (The Trinity of Illuminism -- Cabalistic and Gnostic. The Father -- the generating fire; the Holy Spirit -- the Great Mother Nature, reproducing all things; the Son -- the manifestation, the vital fluid, the astral light of Illuminism)."
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it_is_the_light
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #964 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 5:18am
 
http://www.reformation.org/reformation-in-prophecy.html

The Borgia crime family created the Jesuits!!

After the terrible reign of Pope Alexander VI, the Romans were disgusted with the Spanish and vowed that there would never be another Spanish Pope. This animosity toward the Spanish was further aggravated by the Sack of Rome in 1527 in order to prevent the divorce of Henry VIII from Catherine of Aragon.

The Borgia answer to this Spanish animosity was the creation of the order of Jesuits—a quasi religious/military strike force whose members were totally dedicated to their Spanish leader who bore the military title of general.

Like the White Pope, the general is elected for life and the Jesuit dynasty is a parallel or pseudo Papacy....Of course, the general is content to run the show from behind the scenes so as not to arouse the age-old Italian hatred for the Spanish.

The Jesuit general is referred to as the '"Black" Pope at the Vatican because he always dresses in black. Having 2 Popes is very confusing to Roman Catholics because they have to pick a Pope or choose which one is the legitimate successor of St. Peter?


Ignatius LIEola (1491-1556).
Jesuit general from 1541 to 1556.
     
Since the official founding of the Jesuits 468 years ago, there has been a total of 30 Black Popes.


Francis Borgia (1510 -1572).
Jesuit general from 1565 to 1572.

The Jesuits were officially founding in 1540 by Pope Paul III. Ignatius LIEola became their first general.

Don Francis Borgia was the great-grandson of Pope Alexander VI, and co-founder of the Jesuits. On his mother's side he was descended from King Ferdinand of Aragon.

The Spanish control the Vatican through the Jesuits

For the past 500 years, the Spanish Inquisition has controlled the Vatican by means of the Jesuits. All the Jesuits answer to their general in Rome, and he in turn is content to run the show from behind the scenes, without any publicity or public acclaim so as not to arouse the age-old Italian hostility to the Spanish.

The Papacy was founded by Emperor Constantine, yet there has not been one single British Jesuit general.


Ignatius Loyola was the first Jesuit general.
     
The Latin Church was founded by a Briton, Emperor Constantine, yet there has not been one single British Jesuit general!!

These men live in the very same city—Rome. Both are elected for life; they eat the same food, so we should find a close similarity in length of reigns between the two Papal dynasties.


Pope Paul III officially recognized the Jesuits in 1540.
     
Since the official founding of the Jesuits by Pope Paul III in 1540, there has been a total of 46 White Popes.


White Pope Benedict XVI.

How do we account for such a strange dichotomy in the number of Black and White Popes???

The answer is simple. Any White Pope who did not cooperate with the schemes of the Jesuits was given the poison cup . . . or in the case of Pope John Paul II—the leaden bullet!!

http://babylonmysteryreligion.com/Secret%20Societies.htm

...

Templar's a Catholic Order               

Templar's Kissing the Pope.

...

This is the Knights Palace in Jerusalem.

...

2 plaques were placed outside the palace when Pope Paul VI and John Paul II visited the Palace.

...

Inside the palace church we find Catholic idols.

...
Wow, this is a statue of Jupiter/Peter.

Here is an alter.

...

What's on the bottom left corner of the alter?

...
This is a Masonic symbol.

...
More Masonic symbols. A triangle with an eye in the middle

The Jesuits inherit Templar and Catholic Teaching.      

Founded August 15, 1534 by the Spaniard, Ignatius Loyola and sanctioned by Pope Paul III, September 27, 1540.

Loyola wanted the order to be the champions of catholic unity, which could only be assured through an effective submission to Christ's vicar. (R.P.Jesuit Rouquette, op.cit. p.44.).

...
This is a picture of Ignatius Kneeling to Pope

...
"There is considerable analogy between Masonic and Jesuitic degrees; and the Jesuits also tread down the shoe and bare the knee, because Ignatius Loyola thus presented himself at Rome and asked for the confirmation of the order."

Occult Theocrasy, Lady Qweenborough, (South Pasadena, California; Emissary Publications 1980; org published in 1933) p. 313.

Jesuits were to obey as a "perinde ac cadaver" a corpse.                                          

Loyola wrote "Even if God gave you an animal without sense as a master, you will not hesitate to obay him, as master and guide, because God ordained it to be so. " The  "Constitutions" repeat five hunderd times that one must see Christ in the person of the General.

(Secret History of the Jesuits p. 26)

http://babylonmysteryreligion.com/Secret%20Societies.htm
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Bobby.
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #965 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 6:28am
 
From Karnal in Italics:

Is the Dali Llama a Freemasonic alien lizzard?
No

The practices, symbols and ceremonies of all archaic organisations are creepy.

Thankyou for admitting the truth.


65 pages and the Light hasn’t exposed a thing.
Incorrect - much has been exposed.

forgiven

namaste
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it_is_the_light
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #966 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 6:44am
 
and a good-morning and

every now moment unto you brother being ...

i have cautioned the id karnal in his errant persuits

it_is_the_light wrote on Mar 17th, 2013 at 2:43pm:
you have previously lost your house in wager

i gave it back to you,

now you wager you will leave the thread

then recant change parameter and back peddle

as far as i am concerned you should stop betting

you have proven inept at this and in as much

forgiven

you may stay ,

no need to up the ante as it were

be at peace

namaste

- : )


the id karnal is welcomed to stay

and sharpen his her attributes as we continue

past the equinox event

all is well,

be at peace for all are one

namaste

- : )
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Bobby.
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #967 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 6:50am
 
master Light
Quote:
the id karnal is welcomed to stay

and sharpen his her attributes as we continue

past the equinox event

all is well,

be at peace for all are one

namaste

- : )




Dear master Light,
Yes the equinox passed just 3 days ago &
we'll see the id Karnal being dragged kicking & screaming towards the truth.

With some people it's like putting them in a head lock & pulling a bad tooth out with pliers.

all is in accordance with the DP.


namaste
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it_is_the_light
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #968 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 9:14am
 
most certainly brother bobby i do observe

we are not going back,yet further

"The Light presents such "evidence" above as forensic. He believes this is enough to make a conviction. Not only that, he pretends to believe such a trial is actually underway somewhere - in a universal jurisdiction. He doesn’t mean the laws of karma or any universal law,"

from the id karnal...

supposes here i present such evidence as 'forensic'

this is rebutted as the author takes

ungranted liberties yet become forgiven here and now

in all ways.

the creator and creation is observing ,

and not limited to ,

every move everything makes

yet more in all ways ,

if any can disprove this it remains un- rebutted

as i continue to operate in the multidimensional

existence in which that aspect remains vast

as it is not limited to the macro or micro cosmosi'

et alia

it is so and so it is

so be at peace

namaste

- : )
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Bobby.
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #969 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 10:01am
 
Very true master Light,

your light shines out across the vast universe of cyberspace &
is revealing that which hides in the darkness.

Sometimes when faced with doubters a headlock & pliers may be necessary.

in love & light

namaste
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Dirty Paki Khunt
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #970 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 10:29am
 
Freemasonry is founded on knowledge and ideas from the Egyptian mystery schools. However, it borrows heavily from the rituals of the Medieval church.

And this is based on the pagan rituals and festivals of Rome.

I think it’s highly possible that influential founding Jesuits were also Freemasons. The Jesuits were Catholicism’s intellectual hard hitters and scholars. However, any influence would have been quashed during the Inquisitions.

Freemasonry is far more reliant on the symbolism of the church than vice versa. The Light’s symbol of the inverted pentagram and goat is not a symbol in Freemasonry.

It’s modern witchcraft - most likely 19th century.

The Jesuits were founded in the early 16th century.

Again - any real and unrebuttable evidence, and I will leave this thread for good.
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Bobby.
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #971 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 11:46am
 
Dear Karnal,
the symbols of freemasonary are just as silly as the important sounding
dead languages that the church uses & all their ridiculous ceremonies - 
walking around some object releasing smoke from a vessel.
It's because they have nothing tangible to offer.

However - the freemasons get together to do business behind the scenes.
If someone has some of money to invest -
he can have the bank manager who'll loan more money, the city councillor
who'll approve the project & everyone else he needs to pay off ready to go.

It's all about a few people making money & the rest are suckers who believe in
the ceremonies & get taken for a ride.

I hope that helps you? 


cheers
Bobby
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it_is_the_light
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #972 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 1:55pm
 
"Freemasonry is far more reliant on the symbolism of the church than vice versa. The Light’s symbol of the inverted pentagram and goat is not a symbol in Freemasonry. "

why do you continue to embarrass yourself

in spewing forth ignorance?

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/pentagra...

The Pentagram and Ram's Head

by David J. Stewart

...

The pentagram or pentacle is probably the best known and used of all occult symbols and is considered to be the most potent means of conjuring benevolent spirits. The inverted pentagram, with the point of the star is downward, is used to conjure up the powers of evil. As the circle is believed to enhance the powers of a particular symbol it is usually added to the pentagram. The ordinary (point-up) pentagram is the symbol of witches, warlocks and Wiccans in general and which they call "The Great Rite," whereas the inverted (point-down) pentagram is the symbol of Satanism. The point-down pentacle is also the symbol of Masonry and the Eastern Star.

Masonic writer Manly Hall writes:

"The Pentagram is used extensively in black magic, but when so used its form always differs in one of three ways: The star may be broken at one point by not permitting the converging lines to touch; it may be inverted by having one point down and two up; or it may be distorted by having two points of varying lengths. When used in black magic, the pentagram is called the "sign of the cloven hoof" or the "footprint of the devil". The star with two points upward is also called the "Goat of Mendes" because the inverted star is the same shape as a goat's head. When the upright star turns and the upper point falls to the bottom, its signifies the fall of the Morning Star [Jesus Christ]".

Goat of Mendes -Origin of the Satanic Hand Sign?


Goat and Ram Heads are Sacred in Witchcraft and Satanism



Photo to Right: Advertisement photo for the movie, Pan's Labyrinth, showing the entrance to the Labyrinth. Please notice the ram's horns (which represent Satan).  Also, notice the little girl about to enter. Pan is known as the god of rape and sexual immorality. Please read NARNIA Exposed!

...

In 1966, the Beach Boys came out with their album, Pet Sounds, featuring them feeding goats on their album cover. This is no coincidence, the goat represents Satan...

"The horned and hoofed Greek goat-god, Pan, is one of the most important entities of Witchcraft. Thor, the Norse god, was worshiped before the other gods of Valhalla. Some say he existed as early as the stone-age. Thor drove a great chariot, pulled by two giant, powerful goats. They symbolized thunder and lightning. Medieval legends say that the Devil created the goat. Satan himself often appeared with goat's horns, and sometimes changed his shape completely into a goat." -SOURCE (Encyclopedia Mythica)

Clearly, Satan is the spiritual power behind ALL rock music, including so-called "Christian rock." There is nothing even remotely "Christian" about rock-n-roll music. Rock-n-roll is a religion of immoral sex, drug abuse, and demonic powers summonsed through the music itself. Brian Wilson (lead singer of the Beach Boys) even admitted that he was trying to create "witchcraft music"...

"We were doing witchcraft, trying to make witchcraft music."
-Brian Wilson quoted in Nick Kent's The Dark Stuff (pg.27.)

The music of the Beach Boys may seem harmless, but it is as demonic as all rock-n-roll music.  One of the greatest dangers is that young people idolize rock band members and want to become like them (following in the steps of their mentors).

...

If you think I am being ridiculous, then consider the fact that Paul McCartney did the same exact thing on his 1971 album, RAM. Pictured to the left is Paul McCartney's 1971 album cover. One may contend that there is a vast difference between a goat and a ram; but, if you research the subject of witchcraft, you'll learn that BOTH animals are extremely popular in witchcraft. Notice the Wiccan witches' pendant below with the Ram's head (center photo).

Look again at the definition from the Encyclopedia Mythica of a goat...

"Medieval legends say that the Devil created the goat. Satan himself often appeared with goat's horns, and sometimes changed his shape completely into a goat." -SOURCE (Encyclopedia Mythica)."

Goat of Mendes -Origin of the Satanic Hand Sign?

"The Goat of Mendez is the god of the witches. (Mendez is another spelling of Mendes, a city of ancient Egypt where fertility worship - Baal worship -- was practiced). Masons admit readily that Baphomet is a pagan fertility god and, more importantly, that Freemasonry is a fertility cult religion. At any rate, this mockery of Jesus is a satanic symbol and figures prominently in Satan worship." -Kerr Cuhulain (Occult author, police investigator, and friend of witches)

...

...

...


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it_is_the_light
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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #973 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 1:56pm
 
http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org/ml_intro.htm

A former Satanist, Doc Marquis says this statement is a very characteristic one within Satanism. It has two meanings. First, this phrase means that the Freemason can depend upon their God, Lucifer, to determine their Right and Justice. Secondly, since the God of Freemasonry is Lucifer, Masons are saying that they are "using occult methods", through Lucifer, to achieve their Rights and Justice.

      Marquis says that this phrase is very powerful and very dangerous within Satanism. If a Satanist sees this phrase in Latin on Pike's book, he knows the material within is Satanism!

      The Mason seeks power even the power to control the forces of Nature. This is typical of the Luciferian Worshipper. Way back in the Garden of Eden, Satan, posing as the beautiful Serpent, convinced Eve that she needed the same knowledge that God had finally convincing her to eat from the forbidden Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Ever since sin came into the world, those who practice it seek selfish power to control others and the world around them. This seeking of power is typical of those who get involved in Witchcraft, also known as "THE CRAFT." Let's see what Manly P. Hall, Master Mason, has to say about THE CRAFT and the powers of Lucifer:


"The day has come when Fellow Craftsman (Freemason) must know and apply their knowledge. The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion, which places the energy of the universe at their disposal. Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly. When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his CRAFT. The seething energies of LUCIFER are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare." Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree Mason, K.T., The Lost Keys of Freemasonry or The Secret of Hiram Abiff

...

MASONIC SYMBOLS


THE BAPHOMET

      For additional confirmation that the Masons really do worship the Devil, we need look no further than their use of symbols. We will investigate just a few of them now.

...

The Freemasons adore the figure of the Baphomet, a half man and half goat creature, which in reality represents the "God of forces" or the Devil. Albert Pike, revered Mason said this about the Baphomet:


"The Gnostics held that it [universal agent] composed the igneous [pertaining to fire] body of the Holy Spirit, and it was adored in the secret rites of the Sabbat or the Temple under the hieroglyphic figure of Baphomet or the hermaphroditic goat of Mendes ." Pike, op. cit., p. 734, teaching of the 28th Degree
      The dualistic nature of life and the male female aspects of creation are believed to be contained within the drawing of Occultist Eliphas Levi's Baphomet (above). Levi was one of the foremost Satanists and Freemasons. The image of the Baphomet combines both male and female androgynous qualities; one arm masculine, one feminine; the breasts of a woman with a phallic object on its lap. The illustration also shows one arm points toward a white crescent moon the other towards a dark crescent moon, representing the duality of good and evil. Here is what Eliphas Levi said about the Baphomet in his book, Haute Magie:

"The goat on the frontispiece carries the sign of the pentagram on the forehead, with one point at the top, a symbol of light, his two hands forming the sign of hermetism, the one pointing up to the white moon of Chesed, the other pointing down to the black one of Geburah. This sign expresses the perfect harmony of mercy with justice. His one arm is female, the other male like the ones of the androgyn of Khunrath, the attributes of which we had to unite with those of our goat because he is one and the same symbol. The flame of intelligence shining between his horns is the magic light of the universal balance, the image of the soul elevated above matter, as the flame, whilst being tied to matter, shines above it. The ugly beast's head expresses the horror of the sinner, whose materially acting, solely responsible part has to bear the punishment exclusively; because the soul is insensitive according to its nature and can only suffer when it materializes. The rod standing instead of genitals symbolizes eternal life; the body covered with scales the water, the semi- circle above it the atmosphere, the feathers following above the volatile. Humanity is represented by the two breasts and the androgyn arms of this sphinx of the occult sciences."
      The Baphomet contains several representations of the Occult pantheistic God of Forces (Pan), or the positive and negative aspects of Nature. Basically, this teaching revolves around the idea that good and evil are the same or to be blended together. (Please read my articles in this Web Site about the New Age Movement, for additional insight)... and just who is Pan? Why, he is none other than the Devil himself!

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Re: Freemasonry on Trial
Reply #974 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 2:00pm
 
If you look closely, you will see Baphomet making the sign of the Devil's Trinity with his right hand, representing the forces of darkness and light joining together into one. "Baphomet is also known as the Sabbatic goat, in whose form Satan is to be worshipped at the Witches' Sabbath". Frank Gaynor, Dictionary of Mysticism pg. 24


THE PENTEGRAM AND THE PHOENIX

...

The Goat of Mendes or Baphomet which Freemasons make use of in their symbols is seen here, with the Pentagram on it's head. As you can clearly see, the Tarot Card with the goat and Pentagram is called The Devil. The Pentagram is a frequently utilized symbol in both the Masonry and Satanism, and it has evil significance. The women's Division of the Masonry called The Eastern Star also makes prominent use of the Pentagram.symbol

      Once again, let's go to Occultic Writer and 33rd Degree Freemason, Manly Hall, for an explanation of this symbol. In his book, The Phoenix: An Illustrated Review of Occultism and Philosophy pg. 176,177 we read the following:


"Among the ancients a fabulous bird called the Phoenix is described by early writers ... in size and shape it resembles the eagle, but with certain differences. The body of the Phoenix is one covered with glossy purple feathers, and the plumes in its tail are alternately blue and red. The head of the bird is light in color, and about its neck is a circlet of golden plumage. At the back of its back the Phoenix has a crest of feathers of brilliant color ... The Phoenix, it is said, lives for 500 years, and at its death its body opens and the new born Phoenix emerges. Because of this symbolism, the Phoenix is generally regarded as representing immortality and resurrection ... The Phoenix is one sign of the secret orders of the ancient world and of the initiate of those orders, for it was common to refer to one who had been accepted into the temples as a man twice-born, or reborn. Wisdom confers a new life, and those who become wise are born again."
      To "become wise" means to gain the new Occultic Light, and to thus be "born again" into the New Age Luciferic Worldview.

___________

the id karnal is again proven ignorant

un - rebutted.

and in as much forgiven

namaste

- : )
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