Australian Politics Forum - Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action

Kat

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #75 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:32pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:28pm:

Direct action has major holes:

It plans on reducing co2 by absorbing co2 from atmosphere, rather than reducing the amount generated.
On current estimates, that would mean re-foresting all arable land in Australia.

Imagine the costs of that. Not only for the green-army, but loss of productivity of farm land.

This may let us hit our 2020 target, but what then. The country is at full co2 storage capacity (no new land for trees), and we are still increasing our co2 generation ?
We may be 5% down by 2020, but 2030 is likely to be 30% higher.

No new taxes will pay for it. The cost of just seedlings would be in the billions of dollars for these tree's, if you could get volunteer planters. But no farmer will volunteer, and no greeny will volunteer. And will the farmer require compulsary aquisition of his land. That will cost trillions of dollars. Probably more than many years of GDP.

This is why the libs wont answer any questions about it.

Tony will probably expect the unemployed to do it as a WfD project.

Actually, that's probably the ONLY way it'd be remotely viable.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #76 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:33pm

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:31pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:28pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:26pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:18pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:15pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 8:21am:

Shane B wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2012 at 11:03pm:

You are only obsessed with Abbott's direct action plan because you know he will be PM by theend of 2013. Why keep harping on about it otherwise?

Coal will always be required for baseload power, unless we go nuclear.

Bullshit.....Natural Gas can be used to deliver base load power and Geothermal has potential for the same base load capacity.....The problem is with the Liberal Parties refusal to debate the merits of their Direct Action policy!!!

Direct Action relies on storing carbon in soil to achieve 60 % of their emissions targets.....Storing carbon in soil is not counted towards the protocol.....Is experimental and will not achieve the reductions claimed by the Opposition.....How do Coalition voters justify these glaring failures in the Abbott Direct Action policy???

Any Liberal voters care to support Direct Action and explain how it will achieve 5% reduction in emissions by 2020 when its core element is not even counted towards targets......Anyone???

Roll Eyes

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2804206.html

Still no Coalition supporter can defend Direct Action and the fact it will not work.....Why am I not surprised???

How will Abbott defend his crap policy once he must cost it and explain how it will work....60% of Abbott's emissions are unachievable.....The policy is pure crap and the faithful are to scared to debate its merits.....You have been warned!!!

Roll Eyes

Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything.
Frank Dane

How is the carbon tax going to achieve the 5% reduction. Redistribution of wealth. Buy carbon credits.

Here is a link to help you understand!!!

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1133092/How-does-the-ETS-work

Now how will Direct Action achieve a 5% reduction in emissions Progs???

Huh

Ask Tony Abbott lol. It matters not if it works or not as far as im concerned, but seeing as the carbon tax has no chance in hell of achieving the 5% reduction simply by way of its compensation, then I find it remarkable that you are concerned about direct action achieving it.

Yet economists have stated an ETS will work and is the cheapest way to reduce emissions.....Do you have any evidence to support your claim that an ETS will not work but Direct Action will or are we just supposed to accept your word for it???

Roll Eyes

I am sure they have, just like they said there will be a GFC. Oh no they didnt. Thats right, they are in it for themselves. Dopey bunch who have you suckered.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #77 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:36pm

Kat wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:32pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:28pm:

Direct action has major holes:

It plans on reducing co2 by absorbing co2 from atmosphere, rather than reducing the amount generated.
On current estimates, that would mean re-foresting all arable land in Australia.

Imagine the costs of that. Not only for the green-army, but loss of productivity of farm land.

This may let us hit our 2020 target, but what then. The country is at full co2 storage capacity (no new land for trees), and we are still increasing our co2 generation ?
We may be 5% down by 2020, but 2030 is likely to be 30% higher.

No new taxes will pay for it. The cost of just seedlings would be in the billions of dollars for these tree's, if you could get volunteer planters. But no farmer will volunteer, and no greeny will volunteer. And will the farmer require compulsary aquisition of his land. That will cost trillions of dollars. Probably more than many years of GDP.

This is why the libs wont answer any questions about it.

Tony will probably expect the unemployed to do it as a WfD project.

Our uemployed stocks are dangerously low at only 5%. I doubt there is enough of them to plant the 5 trillion tree's required.

But Im still worried about land acquisition.

This has the smell of pol pot about it.
Pol Pot: "During his time in power he imposed agrarian socialism, forcing urban dwellers to relocate to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labor projects. "

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philperth2010

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #78 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:37pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:28pm:

Direct action has major holes:

It plans on reducing co2 by absorbing co2 from atmosphere, rather than reducing the amount generated.
On current estimates, that would mean re-foresting all arable land in Australia.

Imagine the costs of that. Not only for the green-army, but loss of productivity of farm land.

This may let us hit our 2020 target, but what then. The country is at full co2 storage capacity (no new land for trees), and we are still increasing our co2 generation ?
We may be 5% down by 2020, but 2030 is likely to be 30% higher.

No new taxes will pay for it. The cost of just seedlings would be in the billions of dollars for these tree's, if you could get volunteer planters. But no farmer will volunteer, and no greeny will volunteer. And will the farmer require compulsary aquisition of his land. That will cost trillions of dollars. Probably more than many years of GDP.

This is why the libs wont answer any questions about it.

Direct Action is a load of crap.....The Coalition have ensured Australia will remain dependent on fossil fuel for the foreseeable future.....When it all turns to crap the Australian people will hold Abbott and the Coalition responsible.....When the rest of the world starts trading in carbon permits Australia will fall behind and have no way of attracting investment.....Doing nothing is all Direct Action can offer....That is deniers like it!!!

Roll Eyes

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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philperth2010 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21097 Perth Gender:	Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action Reply #79 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:41pm So the argument from the right is economists, scientists and politicians of all persuasions are wrong and Alan Jones is on the money.....How can you argue with plain stupidity???
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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action Reply #80 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:44pm philperth2010 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:41pm: So the argument from the right is economists, scientists and politicians of all persuasions are wrong and Alan Jones is on the money.....How can you argue with plain stupidity??? But yet you do. You can go now.
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progressiveslol

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #81 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:46pm

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:41pm:

So the argument from the right is economists, scientists and politicians of all persuasions are wrong and Alan Jones is on the money.....How can you argue with plain stupidity???

Roll Eyes

So the left follow scientists who cant prove AGW. Follow politicians that lie to the public and do an exact opposite policy to what they promised, follow economists who could figure out that the world economy was in the poo, not a word.

Talk about complete stupid mushrooms.

Love of socialist reform is not a love many people have. you may be better to ask people to cut their arms off instead of have them follow you.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #82 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:00pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:46pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:41pm:

So the argument from the right is economists, scientists and politicians of all persuasions are wrong and Alan Jones is on the money.....How can you argue with plain stupidity???

Roll Eyes

So the left follow scientists who cant prove AGW. Follow politicians that lie to the public and do an exact opposite policy to what they promised, follow economists who could figure out that the world economy was in the poo, not a word.

Did Alan Jones predict the GFC ?

Actually the economists did predict the GFC, because they started it. They all knew some months before that a lot of money was sitting on a house of cards, and one major leveraged asset price drop, and the thing would unravel. Just needed someone to pull the trigger. Someone (an economist) did.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #83 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:02pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:00pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:46pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:41pm:

So the argument from the right is economists, scientists and politicians of all persuasions are wrong and Alan Jones is on the money.....How can you argue with plain stupidity???

Roll Eyes

So the left follow scientists who cant prove AGW. Follow politicians that lie to the public and do an exact opposite policy to what they promised, follow economists who could figure out that the world economy was in the poo, not a word.

Talk about complete stupid mushrooms.

Love of socialist reform is not a love many people have. you may be better to ask people to cut their arms off instead of have them follow you.

Did Alan Jones predict the GFC ?

Actually the economists did predict the GFC, because they started it. They all knew some months before that a lot of money was sitting on a house of cards, and one major leveraged asset price drop, and the thing would unravel. Just needed someone to pull the trigger. Someone (an economist) did.

Yes, exactly. In it for themselves.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #84 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:08pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:02pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:00pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:46pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:41pm:

So the argument from the right is economists, scientists and politicians of all persuasions are wrong and Alan Jones is on the money.....How can you argue with plain stupidity???

Roll Eyes

So the left follow scientists who cant prove AGW. Follow politicians that lie to the public and do an exact opposite policy to what they promised, follow economists who could figure out that the world economy was in the poo, not a word.

Talk about complete stupid mushrooms.

Love of socialist reform is not a love many people have. you may be better to ask people to cut their arms off instead of have them follow you.

Did Alan Jones predict the GFC ?

Actually the economists did predict the GFC, because they started it. They all knew some months before that a lot of money was sitting on a house of cards, and one major leveraged asset price drop, and the thing would unravel. Just needed someone to pull the trigger. Someone (an economist) did.

Yes, exactly. In it for themselves.

Has an Alan Jones prediction ever come true ?

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progressiveslol

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #85 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:10pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:08pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:02pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:00pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:46pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:41pm:

So the argument from the right is economists, scientists and politicians of all persuasions are wrong and Alan Jones is on the money.....How can you argue with plain stupidity???

Roll Eyes

So the left follow scientists who cant prove AGW. Follow politicians that lie to the public and do an exact opposite policy to what they promised, follow economists who could figure out that the world economy was in the poo, not a word.

Talk about complete stupid mushrooms.

Love of socialist reform is not a love many people have. you may be better to ask people to cut their arms off instead of have them follow you.

Did Alan Jones predict the GFC ?

Actually the economists did predict the GFC, because they started it. They all knew some months before that a lot of money was sitting on a house of cards, and one major leveraged asset price drop, and the thing would unravel. Just needed someone to pull the trigger. Someone (an economist) did.

Yes, exactly. In it for themselves.

Has an Alan Jones prediction ever come true ?

I wouldn't know. I am sure if you ask 2GB, they may be able to be of more help.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #86 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:19pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:46pm:

scientists who cant prove AGW

Scientist cannot definitively prove Gravity as well, are you denying it's existence as well?

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:46pm:

politicians that lie to the public and do an exact opposite policy to what they promised

Tony telling you you a cost on business is a tax, but his donating of tax payer $$ is not.
Tell me which one uses TAXPAYERS money & which one gives the consumer choice on where & how much of their income goes to something.

Tony also told us no new taxes, but is imposing a "Levy"(flood levy = tax, PPL Levy does not = tax according to Mirrabella, can you translate?) on every business that TURNS OVER more than 5 million.
Not Gross profit, not net profit but TURNOVER. I would have to grow my business by about 30% to reach that & I've only got 4 permanent employees.

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:46pm:

follow economists who could figure out that the world economy was in the poo

Actually quite a few economists were warning of the problem, pity more didn't heed their warnings instead of demonizing them.(sound familiar?)

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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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progressiveslol

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #87 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:29pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:19pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:46pm:

scientists who cant prove AGW

Scientist cannot definitively prove Gravity as well, are you denying it's existence as well?

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:46pm:

politicians that lie to the public and do an exact opposite policy to what they promised

Tony telling you you a cost on business is a tax, but his donating of tax payer $$ is not.
Tell me which one uses TAXPAYERS money & which one gives the consumer choice on where & how much of their income goes to something.

Tony also told us no new taxes, but is imposing a "Levy"(flood levy = tax, PPL Levy does not = tax according to Mirrabella, can you translate?) on every business that TURNS OVER more than 5 million.
Not Gross profit, not net profit but TURNOVER. I would have to grow my business by about 30% to reach that & I've only got 4 permanent employees.

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 1:46pm:

follow economists who could figure out that the world economy was in the poo

Actually quite a few economists were warning of the problem, pity more didn't heed their warnings instead of demonizing them.(sound familiar?)

1. gravity is not the same. nice try though. Gravity has empirical evidence. Climate science has none.
2. Not related at all to what I said, so will leave that to you to fix.
3. The only person I know of was Ron Paul in the US. Maybe some glimmer of information from economists, but very little.

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Gist

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #88 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 3:09pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:29pm:

1. gravity is not the same. nice try though. Gravity has empirical evidence. Climate science has none.

Wrong again. There are mountains of proof for climate change, some of it on much better footings than the evidence for gravity.

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong lolly?

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progressiveslol

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Re: Qanda Panel Exposes Direct Action
Reply #89 - Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 3:13pm

Gist wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 3:09pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:29pm:

1. gravity is not the same. nice try though. Gravity has empirical evidence. Climate science has none.

Wrong again. There are mountains of proof for climate change, some of it on much better footings than the evidence for gravity.

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong lolly?

You are not even close to being true.

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