Australian Politics Forum - Labor telling lies over latest boat

Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 60007 Here Gender:	Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat Reply #60 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:11pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:49pm: We dont want boat people at all. Better round up all the descendants of the first fleet and ship them out for a start? Go back and stamp the process out at the root - back when the first boat people arrived with no documentation.
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longweekend58

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Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat
Reply #61 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:09pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:49pm:

We dont want boat people at all.

Don't include me in that "we".

I have no problem with assisting legal asylum seekers.

What is it about helping legal asylum seekers that bothers you? What do you have against assisting fellow humans in need?

The point - which you fail to acknowledge - is that most people DO consider them illegals. And their argument is rather compelling. You dont gain anything by an argument such as yours which is entirely one of terminology.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat
Reply #62 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:13pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:49pm:

We dont want boat people at all.

Don't include me in that "we".

I have no problem with assisting legal asylum seekers.

What is it about helping legal asylum seekers that bothers you? What do you have against assisting fellow humans in need?

so finally you make a point. you dont mind them? fine. Dont presume that is sufficient reason for anyone else. My objection is that there arent a few thousand wanting to come here. there are MILLIONS. you dont think that is a particualrly vexing problem? We already take genuine refugees. Whats to stop them coming thru official channels like everyone else?

Since you love to use the legal/illegal distinction then perhaps you have noticed that pretty much no one objects to them coming thru official ie LEGAL means but have a very big problem with coming by ILLEGAL means. And not even you can redefine the means they use to get her as 'legal' as it is not.

join the queue? no problem.
come illegalyy? we will boot you into detention

simple really. and quite fair.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Uncle Meat

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Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat
Reply #63 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:15pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:49pm:

We dont want boat people at all.

Don't include me in that "we".

I have no problem with assisting legal asylum seekers.

What is it about helping legal asylum seekers that bothers you? What do you have against assisting fellow humans in need?

The point - which you fail to acknowledge - is that most people DO consider them illegals. And their argument is rather compelling. You dont gain anything by an argument such as yours which is entirely one of terminology.

Facts.

They are legal asylum seekers.

What do you have against legal asylum seekers?

What do you have against assisting fellow humans in need?

Question too hard for you?

I certainly do acknowledge that a lot of people call them illegal immigrants. I also acknowledge that those people are complete morons.

The fact is though, they are not illegal immigrants.

Now, ask these two questions and note the different answers you'll get:

1. do you advocate helping illegal immigrants?

2. do you advocate helping legal asylum seekers?

See the difference? I would answer "no" to number 1.

Understand now? Roll Eyes

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Uncle Meat

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Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat
Reply #64 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:20pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

Since you love to use the legal/illegal distinction then perhaps you have noticed that pretty much no one objects to them coming thru official ie LEGAL means but have a very big problem with coming by ILLEGAL means. And not even you can redefine the means they use to get her as 'legal' as it is not.

Your ignorance is astounding.

There is no "official" means of becoming an asylum seeker.

There is no application process in order to become an asylum seeker.

There is no queue to join in order to become an asylum seeker.

You are confusing 'refugee' with 'asylum seeker'.

Coming to Australia by boat, with no visa, is perfectly legitimate if one claims asylum.

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Uncle Meat

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Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat
Reply #65 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:23pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

The point - which you fail to acknowledge - is that most people DO consider them illegals.

Yes, but they are 100% wrong.

Asylum seekers coming by boat with no visas are not illegal immigrants. Simple fact.

Furthermore, the majority are granted genuine refugee status.

What is it about facts that you don't like?

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat
Reply #66 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:35pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:15pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 1:49pm:

We dont want boat people at all.

Don't include me in that "we".

I have no problem with assisting legal asylum seekers.

What is it about helping legal asylum seekers that bothers you? What do you have against assisting fellow humans in need?

The point - which you fail to acknowledge - is that most people DO consider them illegals. And their argument is rather compelling. You dont gain anything by an argument such as yours which is entirely one of terminology.

Facts.

They are legal asylum seekers.

What do you have against legal asylum seekers?

What do you have against assisting fellow humans in need?

Question too hard for you?

I certainly do acknowledge that a lot of people call them illegal immigrants. I also acknowledge that those people are complete morons.

The fact is though, they are not illegal immigrants.

Now, ask these two questions and note the different answers you'll get:

1. do you advocate helping illegal immigrants?

2. do you advocate helping legal asylum seekers?

See the difference? I would answer "no" to number 1.

Understand now? Roll Eyes

you are STILL playing with definitions which is pointless. refugees need to come by legal and established means. is that too really much to ask?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat
Reply #67 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:37pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

The point - which you fail to acknowledge - is that most people DO consider them illegals.

Yes, but they are 100% wrong.

Asylum seekers coming by boat with no visas are not illegal immigrants. Simple fact.

Furthermore, the majority are granted genuine refugee status.

What is it about facts that you don't like?

what is it that prevents you from understanding that these legal definitions DONT AFFECT the debate? no body cares about them,. the debate is always around coming to australia illegally (which they are) and how we control that flow since the number who want to come here is in the millions.

This isnt a legal problem. it is a practical one. Care to join the deabte where it is actually taking place?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Gist Gold Member Offline I am not a sock, I am a human being! Posts: 5476	Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat Reply #68 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:46pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:35pm: you are STILL playing with definitions which is pointless. refugees need to come by legal and established means. is that too really much to ask? They do! Is it too much to ask that you understand that?
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Uncle Meat

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Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat
Reply #69 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:48pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:37pm:

This isnt a legal problem. it is a practical one.

So, why do those on the retarded right insist on using the term "illegal immigrants"? Hmmm?

And, asylum seekers are not the practical problem: visa overstayers are.

"THERE are enough illegal immigrants living in Australia to fill a large regional city, and nearly all of these 58,400 people arrive by plane.

"There are 13 times more illegal immigrants than there are asylum seekers in detention who have arrived by boat."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6frea6u-...

So, as you can see, boat people (legal asylum seekers) are not the practical problem: visa overstayers (illegal immigrants who arrive by plane) are the problem.

Having established those facts, why are you so concerned with the relatively small number of legal asylum seekers coming to Australia? Why aren't you concerned with the large number of illegal immigrants coming by plane?

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Uncle Meat

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Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat
Reply #70 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:57pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:35pm:

you are STILL playing with definitions which is pointless. refugees need to come by legal and established means. is that too really much to ask?

There are no "established means" for asylum seekers.

Once again, you are confusing 'asylum seekers' with 'refugees'.

Please pay attention:

* One must apply for refugee status. There are strict processes in place.

* One does not (and can not) apply for asylum seeker status. No such process exists.

Is any of this getting through?

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat
Reply #71 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:33pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:37pm:

This isnt a legal problem. it is a practical one.

So, why do those on the retarded right insist on using the term "illegal immigrants"? Hmmm?

And, asylum seekers are not the practical problem: visa overstayers are.

"THERE are enough illegal immigrants living in Australia to fill a large regional city, and nearly all of these 58,400 people arrive by plane.

"There are 13 times more illegal immigrants than there are asylum seekers in detention who have arrived by boat."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6frea6u-...

So, as you can see, boat people (legal asylum seekers) are not the practical problem: visa overstayers (illegal immigrants who arrive by plane) are the problem.

Having established those facts, why are you so concerned with the relatively small number of legal asylum seekers coming to Australia? Why aren't you concerned with the large number of illegal immigrants coming by plane?

so you are intent on playing with definitions insted of debating the actual topic? this is why you are losing the debate nation-wide. YOU DONT GET IT and nore does labor.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Uncle Meat

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Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat
Reply #72 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:51pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:33pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 3:37pm:

This isnt a legal problem. it is a practical one.

So, why do those on the retarded right insist on using the term "illegal immigrants"? Hmmm?

And, asylum seekers are not the practical problem: visa overstayers are.

"THERE are enough illegal immigrants living in Australia to fill a large regional city, and nearly all of these 58,400 people arrive by plane.

"There are 13 times more illegal immigrants than there are asylum seekers in detention who have arrived by boat."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6frea6u-...

So, as you can see, boat people (legal asylum seekers) are not the practical problem: visa overstayers (illegal immigrants who arrive by plane) are the problem.

Having established those facts, why are you so concerned with the relatively small number of legal asylum seekers coming to Australia? Why aren't you concerned with the large number of illegal immigrants coming by plane?

so you are intent on playing with definitions insted of debating the actual topic? this is why you are losing the debate nation-wide. YOU DONT GET IT and nore does labor.

Until you learn the correct "definitions", you don't even have an argument.

So, what about an answer to my question? Why are you only concerned with the small number of boat people and not the large number of illegal immigrants arriving by plane?

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Gist Gold Member Offline I am not a sock, I am a human being! Posts: 5476	Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat Reply #73 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:53pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:33pm: so you are intent on playing with definitions insted of debating the actual topic? this is why you are losing the debate nation-wide. YOU DONT GET IT and nore does labor. Hah! If anyone doesn't understand the topic, I'd be inclined to say it was you.
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Uncle Meat Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2434 Tasmania Gender:	Re: Labor telling lies over latest boat Reply #74 - Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:56pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 4:33pm: YOU DONT GET IT and nore does labor. It seems you "don't get it". Did you miss this bit: "There are 13 times more illegal immigrants than there are asylum seekers in detention who have arrived by boat." No comment on that little fact? Hmmm?
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