Australian Politics Forum - Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #60 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:41pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:38pm:

... wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:36pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:23pm:

... wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:21pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:13pm:

They are trying to make normal things abnormal, it's stupid.

Yes, you're right. However, "they" are also trying to make abnormal things normal.

What's their game?

What abnormal things?

SOB

Homosexuality for example. Wink

I doubt very much they are teaching 3 year olds homosexuality or even assessing them for it.

SOB

so?

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #61 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:41pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:39pm:

... wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:36pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:23pm:

... wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:21pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 4:13pm:

They are trying to make normal things abnormal, it's stupid.

Yes, you're right. However, "they" are also trying to make abnormal things normal.

What's their game?

What abnormal things?

SOB

Homosexuality for example. Wink

So says the pedo priests and your good self, so that must be right.

WTF?

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Lin

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #62 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 5:52pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 10:16am:

warrigal wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 10:13am:

I am pretty happy here your Pole gives a resounding NO answer here

Yeah it does but its just us. A captive audience of ppl in this forum however varied we are in opinion. There should really be some kind of public polls done on this topic before they bring such a thing in but nope.

SOB

I found and joined this forum because of this issue, so your #s have grown by one at least. Cheesy

Wouldn't it be nice if we had access to the questions? To the other points to be assessed? Is the fact the child doesn't sit still included? The fact the child seems lethargic?
If the assessment is done on a "cranky" day, the result is going to be vastly different to a really happy day?
How about if you ask a child this age "are you afraid of the dark?" in their little mind they think "oh I should be afraid of the dark?"

At present it is voluntary and I hope parents refuse but how long before it is compulsory? How long before Drs are asked why they aren't submitting enough assessments?

I haven't looked around the forum yet. Has anyone raised the topic that WA is considering granting 12 yos the right of "informed consent" for psychotropics. In other words if a psych convinces the child that they will "feel better" by popping this pill, the parents will have no say. Then of course if the parent doesn't follow the treatment plan DOCS could take the child. I have done a lot of research on anti depressants and am quite well educated and I do not believe that I could make an "informed decision".

Sorry I strayed from topic I think the whole idea would be laughable if it was not so horrendous.

No No No No No

We should organise rallies and marches over this one!

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freediver

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #63 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:07pm

Just because a 12yo has the right to consent to medication does not mean parents are going to loose control. If a child needs psychiatric medication this would also be grounds for granting the parents more rights, not less. The new changes would only come into effect in a situation where a legally sane child disagrees with his or her parents over medication. I would be inclined to side with the child. Just because someone is a parent does not mean they aren't an idiot and there are plenty of parents around who would deny their child necessary medication on some kind of ideological ground.

Welcome to OzPolitic Lin.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #64 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:16pm

Lin wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 5:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 10:16am:

warrigal wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 10:13am:

I am pretty happy here your Pole gives a resounding NO answer here

Yeah it does but its just us. A captive audience of ppl in this forum however varied we are in opinion. There should really be some kind of public polls done on this topic before they bring such a thing in but nope.

SOB

I found and joined this forum because of this issue, so your #s have grown by one at least. Cheesy

Wouldn't it be nice if we had access to the questions? To the other points to be assessed? Is the fact the child doesn't sit still included? The fact the child seems lethargic?
If the assessment is done on a "cranky" day, the result is going to be vastly different to a really happy day?
How about if you ask a child this age "are you afraid of the dark?" in their little mind they think "oh I should be afraid of the dark?"

At present it is voluntary and I hope parents refuse but how long before it is compulsory? How long before Drs are asked why they aren't submitting enough assessments?

I haven't looked around the forum yet. Has anyone raised the topic that WA is considering granting 12 yos the right of "informed consent" for psychotropics. In other words if a psych convinces the child that they will "feel better" by popping this pill, the parents will have no say. Then of course if the parent doesn't follow the treatment plan DOCS could take the child. I have done a lot of research on anti depressants and am quite well educated and I do not believe that I could make an "informed decision".

Sorry I strayed from topic I think the whole idea would be laughable if it was not so horrendous.

No No No No No

We should organise rallies and marches over this one!

Q: Mike Tyson ruined peoples day on which medically prescribed drug???

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #65 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:17pm

Personally, I can't see what all the fuss is about. If a parent is worried about any aspect of their childs health, mental or physical, of course they should check it out.

This thread seems to imply it's some sort of nefarious scheme where every kid in the country is put through a battery of tests, before being force fed mind altering drugs.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #66 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:18pm

Quote:

I haven't looked around the forum yet. Has anyone raised the topic that WA is considering granting 12 yos the right of "informed consent" for psychotropics. In other words if a psych convinces the child that they will "feel better" by popping this pill, the parents will have no say. Then of course if the parent doesn't follow the treatment plan DOCS could take the child. I have done a lot of research on anti depressants and am quite well educated and I do not believe that I could make an "informed decision".

Perhaps you should start a thread on this.

SOB

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Lin

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #67 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:22pm

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:07pm:

Just because a 12yo has the right to consent to medication does not mean parents are going to loose control. If a child needs psychiatric medication this would also be grounds for granting the parents more rights, not less. Could you explain your basis for that thought?
The new changes would only come into effect in a situation where a legally sane child disagrees with his or her parents over medication. A legally sane child? Wouldn't the fact that a mental health issue has (supposedly) been identified negate that?
I would be inclined to side with the child. Please do some research into the brain and brain chemicals and come back and tell me how any of them can be measured in a living brain? Also research puberty? Research just why doctors are told start low, go slow AIM high when they are dealing with drugs that are so potent? Or research the suicide rates years on from these drugs, which are tested only for months? Just because someone is a parent does not mean they aren't an idiot and there are plenty of parents around who would deny their child necessary medication on some kind of ideological ground. I totally agree that is why in the first place where there is disagreement things should go before a panel or court i.e. denying your child a blood transfusion should be a no no, denying the use of brain drugs should be considered in consideration of the developing brain, alternative treatment, lifestyle changes... not popping a pill!

Welcome to OzPolitic Lin.

Thanks for the welcome.

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #68 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:28pm

Quote:

A legally sane child? Wouldn't the fact that a mental health issue has (supposedly) been identified negate that?

In many cases yes. But there are plenty of mental illnesses that do not impair judgement.

Quote:

Please do some research into the brain and brain chemicals and come back and tell me how any of them can be measured in a living brain?

No thanks.

Quote:

I totally agree that is why in the first place where there is disagreement things should go before a panel or court i.e. denying your child a blood transfusion should be a no no, denying the use of brain drugs should be considered in consideration of the developing brain, alternative treatment, lifestyle changes... not popping a pill!

Sometimes a pill is the best option. I can't imagine a child in this scenario denying the parent's request to get a second opinion on treatment options.

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #69 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:37pm

... wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:17pm:

Personally, I can't see what all the fuss is about. If a parent is worried about any aspect of their childs health, mental or physical, of course they should check it out.

This thread seems to imply it's some sort of nefarious scheme where every kid in the country is put through a battery of tests, before being force fed mind altering drugs.

There's always the possiblity of oversubscription you bet!!!

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #70 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:52pm

Welcome Lin, I'm with you, it's a con.

Let the littlies wet the bed and have the night light on.

Isn't there old deaf people you can start an industry with. The National Hearing Clinic where all over 50's can have a free hearing test. We promise we'll only convince 80% of clients that they need a hearing aid. So it's been done.

The government are so rich they can't find enough ways to waste money.

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #71 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:58pm

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:28pm:

Quote:

A legally sane child? Wouldn't the fact that a mental health issue has (supposedly) been identified negate that?

In many cases yes. But there are plenty of mental illnesses that do not impair judgement.
Name them please?

Quote:

Please do some research into the brain and brain chemicals and come back and tell me how any of them can be measured in a living brain?

No thanks. Ah so you are willing to express an opinion but not willing to follow up?

Quote:

I totally agree that is why in the first place where there is disagreement things should go before a panel or court i.e. denying your child a blood transfusion should be a no no, denying the use of brain drugs should be considered in consideration of the developing brain, alternative treatment, lifestyle changes... not popping a pill!

Sometimes a pill is the best option. when?
I can't imagine a child in this scenario denying the parent's request to get a second opinion on treatment options.

so you can't imagine a child thinking "oh that sounds good, let's try it?" or "Hey I could get this stuff and sell it to that junkie at school?"

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 60840 Here Gender:	Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes Reply #72 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:03pm I am a maybe vote. On one side their are huge advantages for problem children to have these issues picked up as early as possible and treated. On the other the danger of incorrect diagnosis and over medication is extreeme. I would vote yes if I felt any system could be trusted.
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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #73 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:07pm

Lin wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:58pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:28pm:

Quote:

A legally sane child? Wouldn't the fact that a mental health issue has (supposedly) been identified negate that?

In many cases yes. But there are plenty of mental illnesses that do not impair judgement.
Name them please?

Quote:

Please do some research into the brain and brain chemicals and come back and tell me how any of them can be measured in a living brain?

No thanks. Ah so you are willing to express an opinion but not willing to follow up?

Quote:

I totally agree that is why in the first place where there is disagreement things should go before a panel or court i.e. denying your child a blood transfusion should be a no no, denying the use of brain drugs should be considered in consideration of the developing brain, alternative treatment, lifestyle changes... not popping a pill!

Sometimes a pill is the best option. when?
I can't imagine a child in this scenario denying the parent's request to get a second opinion on treatment options.

so you can't imagine a child thinking "oh that sounds good, let's try it?" or "Hey I could get this stuff and sell it to that junkie at school?"

you really think a 12yo is going to get unsupervised acces to psychotropics??

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Re: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illnes
Reply #74 - Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:08pm

Quote:

Sometimes a pill is the best option. when?

Ask your psychiatrist.

Quote:

so you can't imagine a child thinking "oh that sounds good, let's try it?" or "Hey I could get this stuff and sell it to that junkie at school?"

Sure, but the law is not going to change whether a child thinks that. It will only come into play where parents attempt to deny or force feed a child medication. As far as I know it does not force the exclusion of the parents from the whole process. It is only a way of creating a default ruling when there is a disagreement.

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Question: Should Young Children be Checked for Mental Illness?
Yes No Maybe « Created by: Sir Spot of Borg on: Jun 10^th, 2012 at 2:03pm »