Australian Politics Forum - Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.

Avram Horowitz

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #45 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:21pm

MOTR wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 6:14pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 6:09pm:

Everyone act together yes? I agree.

So tell to me, why does everyone have measure to reduce to % of 1990 levels but China and India do not?
I thought we all act together?
Shall we not has same target???

Why should we be able to pollute at much higher levels, is it because we got there first and have been polluting much longer.

China pollutes 30% of the world total.
If you use your per head quota you would try to fix Gibraltar before the world's worst.

It is stupid and ignores the real problem.

Put everyone to same targets.

If you feel sorry for a country then you can not be serious about the fix.

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longweekend58

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #46 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:27pm

MOTR wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 6:17pm:

Exactly how are you planning to do that, Longy. Are you going to take us to war with China.

I'll start by at least understanding that China emits the most CO2 and not pretending oterhwise like you do.

If you believe that CO2 is the problem then you might also understand that the biospehere gives not one crap over if it is australian Co2 or Chinese Co2 or Indian CO2

You are playing politics and not science.

A big problem is not solved by per-capita poltically correct thinking. it is solved by actually addressing the problem.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #47 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:28pm You are taking a very extreme and unworkable position, Avram. The rest of the world accepts that for this to work developing countries require some sort of concession. And BTW, we are well on the way to a legally enforceable global agreement. It's not happening fast enough but it is happening.
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #48 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:31pm

MOTR wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 6:28pm:

You are taking a very extreme and unworkable position, Avram. The rest of the world accepts that for this to work developing countries require some sort of concession. And BTW, we are well on the way to a legally enforceable global agreement. It's not happening fast enough but it is happening.

As you know Israel is classed developing so I do not say this from selfish view but ignoring how bad is China's total is stupid.

By the way have you read some of india's comment?
"carbon emissions are not a priority"

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MOTR

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #49 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 6:27pm:

MOTR wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 6:17pm:

Exactly how are you planning to do that, Longy. Are you going to take us to war with China.

I'll start by at least understanding that China emits the most CO2 and not pretending oterhwise like you do.

If you believe that CO2 is the problem then you might also understand that the biospehere gives not one crap over if it is australian Co2 or Chinese Co2 or Indian CO2

You are playing politics and not science.

A big problem is not solved by per-capita poltically correct thinking. it is solved by actually addressing the problem.

How are going to get China to accept that they are 2nd class citizens and still get some sort of collective action from them. You know it's impossible so why would you even pretend it's a rational way forward.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #50 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:35pm So china is allowed to keep increasing emissions by huge numbers and everyone else must reduce. Stupid.
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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #51 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:40pm Inevitably China will have to reduce its emissions, that does not mean there isn't some scope for a transfer of emissions from developed to developing counties in the short run. What are you proposing and how would you get developing countries to agree with you?
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longweekend58

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #52 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:40pm

MOTR wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 6:28pm:

You are taking a very extreme and unworkable position, Avram. The rest of the world accepts that for this to work developing countries require some sort of concession. And BTW, we are well on the way to a legally enforceable global agreement. It's not happening fast enough but it is happening.

Really? It is the worlds consensus tha there is NO consensus of the sort. Did you not see copenhagen - perhaps the most expensive, bext advertised complete fiasco in all of historY? not a single agreement from that other than a few motherhood statements.

there is NO consensus that the third world should get consensus. That comes from the mouth of a few non-representative wankers.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #53 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:43pm

MOTR wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 6:40pm:

Inevitably China will have to reduce its emissions, that does not mean there isn't some scope for a transfer of emissions from developed to developing counties in the short run.

What are you proposing and how would you get developing countries to agree with you?

'inevitably' and all those other nice sounding words. pure drivel. China will do what it is forced to do and nothing else - just like most countries. and while you are rabbitting on, China is increasing its emissions by a stellar amount and you make excuses.

It is just as well that Co2 is not the problem because if we follow the climate hysterics path to reducing emissions nothing will ever happen.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #54 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:50pm Again I ask, Longy, how are we going to get countries to comply? I believe we should be entitled to put a tax on imported emissions.
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #55 - May 20^th, 2012 at 7:01pm

Let me show you your argument -

Emissions per capita

Metric Tons per capita

Dutch Antilles - 31
Luxembourg - 21
Falkland Islands - 19

China - 5

Total Emissions (in thousands metric tons)

Dutch Antilles - 6,219 (0.02%)
Luxembourg - 10,502 (0.03%)
Falkland Islands - 59 (0.0001%)

China - 8,240,958 (29.7%)

Now you would put the Falkland Islands as a bigger problem for the world pollution problem in your theory?

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #56 - May 20^th, 2012 at 7:07pm You realize China's emissions is - 8,240,958,000,000 More than nearly all the rest of the world add together. And this is not a problem and you think they can increase??? Crazy.
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MOTR

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #57 - May 20^th, 2012 at 7:14pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 7:07pm:

You realize China's emissions is -

8,240,958,000,000

More than nearly all the rest of the world add together.

And this is not a problem and you think they can increase???

Crazy.

How are you going to stop them, Avram? The best outcome is to work towards a medium term reduction in emissions.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #58 - May 20^th, 2012 at 7:15pm

MOTR wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 7:14pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 7:07pm:

You realize China's emissions is -

8,240,958,000,000

More than nearly all the rest of the world add together.

And this is not a problem and you think they can increase???

Crazy.

How are you going to stop them, Avram? The best outcome is to work towards a medium term reduction in emissions.

You get tough with them and use force if necessary.
That is my view.

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #59 - May 20^th, 2012 at 7:22pm

So by your argument, no one should act on carbon emissions because no one should lead because someone else will follow instead of leading.

Even though Australia is in the frontline of climate catastrophe, that inaction could slash up to 20% of the next generations wealth.

That inaction will result in war and strife. That without acting, we will enact methane global warming, a gas over 20 times as lethal as carbon as far as heat trapping.

That by inaction, Australia deals itself out of global negotiations to push for stronger action.

And last but not least, those that move first will be the ones who benefit from the financial advantages.

To use China as an excuse to not act is a form of racism.

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