Australian Politics Forum - Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.

Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #30 - May 20^th, 2012 at 3:13pm Why is the target of the USA to REDUCE their total pollution but China's target over same year is to INCREASE total pollution? Even though China already is world's worst polluter? If you care for the environment why do you think this is not bad?
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #31 - May 20^th, 2012 at 3:14pm

____ wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:12pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

I dont care about fair.

I care about reducing pollution.

If Australia reduces it goes down from 0.13%.

If China reduces it goes down from 30%.

China matters, Australia is just so small it make no difference.

Who cares about fair?

Care about the problem and fixing it.

And thats your tactic. You want unfair outcomes so you can ride on the back of Chinese and Indians.

Australia is one of the biggest polluters per capita. If the biggest polluters have to act, then this includes Australia.

I care about reducing total pollution.

Do you?

You want to allow China to keep pollution increasing? More than 30%?
Maybe to 40%?
50%?

Why are you happy to see pollution increase?

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falah

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #32 - May 20^th, 2012 at 3:28pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:14pm:

____ wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:12pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

I dont care about fair.

I care about reducing pollution.

If Australia reduces it goes down from 0.13%.

If China reduces it goes down from 30%.

China matters, Australia is just so small it make no difference.

Who cares about fair?

Care about the problem and fixing it.

And thats your tactic. You want unfair outcomes so you can ride on the back of Chinese and Indians.

Australia is one of the biggest polluters per capita. If the biggest polluters have to act, then this includes Australia.

I care about reducing total pollution.

Do you?

You want to allow China to keep pollution increasing? More than 30%?
Maybe to 40%?
50%?

Why are you happy to see pollution increase?

Israel creates more carbon per person than China

If we look historically, China has contributed not so much to the levels of carbon in the atmosphere:

Historical responsibility for climate impact (1880–2004)

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Nothing is worthy of worship except God Almighty - our Creator!

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longweekend58

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #33 - May 20^th, 2012 at 4:47pm

MOTR wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 10:28am:

The temperature on Mars is a very indirect way of measuring solar output. Direct measures of solar radiation tell us that solar output is actually decreasing.

excsue me? Mars temperature is increasing and that is because soalr output is decreasing?

I just love all these graphs. Im sure in 20 years time these same graphs will still be produced and shown as evidence of global warming while sydney harbour ices up.

So no, I dont believe it. Ive read so many articles, seen so many graphs and not seen any actual evidence of any of it. Every climate prediction fails, every model is a limp disaster and whats worse the temperature is still rising apparently despite record cold spells. And no climate scientiest has apparently EVER done anythign unprofessional unethical or made a mistake, Just look at all the reviews and investigations. Not once haev they ever done anything wrong.

and if you belive that you will believe anything.

and apparently. do.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #34 - May 20^th, 2012 at 4:49pm

falah wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:28pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:14pm:

____ wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:12pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

I dont care about fair.

I care about reducing pollution.

If Australia reduces it goes down from 0.13%.

If China reduces it goes down from 30%.

China matters, Australia is just so small it make no difference.

Who cares about fair?

Care about the problem and fixing it.

And thats your tactic. You want unfair outcomes so you can ride on the back of Chinese and Indians.

Australia is one of the biggest polluters per capita. If the biggest polluters have to act, then this includes Australia.

I care about reducing total pollution.

Do you?

You want to allow China to keep pollution increasing? More than 30%?
Maybe to 40%?
50%?

Why are you happy to see pollution increase?

Israel creates more carbon per person than China

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/CO2_per_capita_per_country.pn...

If we look historically, China has contributed not so much to the levels of carbon in the atmosphere:

Historical responsibility for climate impact (1880–2004)

http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c1/figure12.png

and as usual, galah misses the point. PER PERSON is irrelevant.

but then again he is a muslim. clarity of thought is not encouraged.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5520 Gender:	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #35 - May 20^th, 2012 at 4:56pm i think everybody in the world should become one country each so then nobody will ever have to do anything about co2 emissions
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MOTR

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #36 - May 20^th, 2012 at 5:37pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 4:47pm:

MOTR wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 10:28am:

The temperature on Mars is a very indirect way of measuring solar output. Direct measures of solar radiation tell us that solar output is actually decreasing.

excsue me? Mars temperature is increasing and that is because soalr output is decreasing?

I just love all these graphs. Im sure in 20 years time these same graphs will still be produced and shown as evidence of global warming while sydney harbour ices up.

So no, I dont believe it. Ive read so many articles, seen so many graphs and not seen any actual evidence of any of it. Every climate prediction fails, every model is a limp disaster and whats worse the temperature is still rising apparently despite record cold spells. And no climate scientiest has apparently EVER done anythign unprofessional unethical or made a mistake, Just look at all the reviews and investigations. Not once haev they ever done anything wrong.

and if you belive that you will believe anything.

and apparently. do.

Longy, we can't even be sure that Mars is warming. The data we have on Mars is scarce to say the least. Dust storms have a significant impact on the Martian atmosphere and can certainly mask any impact solar activity might be having. So yes it is possible that there might be warming on mars even during a decline in solar activity.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #37 - May 20^th, 2012 at 5:45pm What amazes me, Longy, is that you'll dispute our ability to measure warming on our own planet, yet you will unquestionably accept Mars is warming. How do you reckon that was determined?
Back to top	Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings "What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions." IP Logged

Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #38 - May 20^th, 2012 at 5:49pm Why do you put as much importance on country that contributes 0.1% but are more easy on country who pollutes 30% of world total? Why shall some country be held to % of 1990 level of emission but China can have no reduction of 1990 level in fact they allow to be 5 times their 1990? You think sensible?
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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #39 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:05pm What right do we have to lecture China if we can't get our own act together. If the Chinese had your carbon footprint, or indeed mine, we'd all be f#%ed. What happens in China is critical, however, the rest of the world free riding would pretty much guarantee no action from the major players.
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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #40 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:09pm Everyone act together yes? I agree. So tell to me, why does everyone have measure to reduce to % of 1990 levels but China and India do not? I thought we all act together? Shall we not has same target???
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longweekend58

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #41 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:12pm

MOTR wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 5:45pm:

What amazes me, Longy, is that you'll dispute our ability to measure warming on our own planet, yet you will unquestionably accept Mars is warming. How do you reckon that was determined?

the point is that you happily ignore it. My point is that I am getting increasingly spectical of supposed global temperature measurements. There is too much happening that points to bias. The best example was Canada experienceing its 'hottest year ever' which was also the first year in 40 years that every sqm of the country was under snow. it just doesnt add up. esp not when that same story is repeated all around the world.

Hottest year ever in australi - the same year that adelaide has its coldest summer in 15 years. Same in sydney etc etc etc

Id really like to believe soem of these measuring agencies but these reports simply dont gel with what is happening in the real world.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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MOTR

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #42 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:14pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 6:09pm:

Everyone act together yes? I agree.

So tell to me, why does everyone have measure to reduce to % of 1990 levels but China and India do not?
I thought we all act together?
Shall we not has same target???

Why should we be able to pollute at much higher levels, is it because we got there first and have been polluting much longer.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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longweekend58

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #43 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:15pm

MOTR wrote on May 20^th, 2012 at 6:05pm:

What right do we have to lecture China if we can't get our own act together. If the Chinese had your carbon footprint, or indeed mine, we'd all be f#%ed. What happens in China is critical, however, the rest of the world free riding would pretty much guarantee no action from the major players.

if you believ in CO2 as the problem then you attack the sources of C02 - not play silly buggers with pointless per capita crap which does not in any way affect the outcome. Whenever I hear this rubbish it reinforces that they hysterics arent really after reductions in Co2. If they were they'd attack the source. it is no more than just another reason to attack the west and try and extort more money.

If there is a problem, you attack the problem. unless it is CO2 inwhich you blame everyone else EXCEPT the source of the problem,

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #44 - May 20^th, 2012 at 6:17pm Exactly how are you planning to do that, Longy. Are you going to take us to war with China.
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