Australian Politics Forum - Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.

MOTR

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #135 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 6:06am

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 8:41pm:

Why will you allow china to increase?
You seem only worried about it when it is a western country?
Reverse racism?

I've been to China several times. I've seen the affluent suburbs of Shanghai but I've also seen the frugal existence of the vast majority. Individually, the Chinese have very small carbon footprints. However, China has become the factory of the world and is now emitting more greenhouse gases than any other country. Most of the greenhouse gases coming from China are a function of our GHG intensive lifestyles, not the lifestyles of the Chinese.

We are asking the Chinese people to cap their level of emissions at a point well below that of the developed world. Just as we have seen our economic development as an inalienable right, so too do the Chinese. We are asking the Chinese to make a much larger sacrifice than us and they are in a powerful enough position to say no.

I have no problem with a global agreement that gives some concessions to developing countries. It's actually not a controversial position, Avram, it has been at the heart of all global agreements to date and it is a position wholeheartedly supported by Israel. There is nothing racist about the position I have taken.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Uncle Meat

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #136 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 7:21am

MOTR wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 5:01am:

Meat, you've lost me entirely. If you want to call good science speculation, go ahead. You obviously don't have the intellect or the stomach to deal with this issue.

On every point of difference you have deliberately diverted the debate to a game of semantics. It is clear you have a very superficial understanding of the science and you are comfortable in your ignorance.

When you are willing to discuss the science, get back to me. To paraphrase Neil Bohr, if Global Warming has not shaken you up yet, you probably haven’t understood it.

Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.

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Uncle Meat Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2434 Tasmania Gender:	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #137 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 7:22am MOTR wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 5:01am: Meat, you've lost me entirely. That's because you don't fully understand how science works. You'll get there, eventually (hopefully).
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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #138 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 7:29am You are a delayer, Uncle Meat. If you are waiting for absolute certainty you are a fool.
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MOTR

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #139 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 7:35am

Uncle Meat wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 7:22am:

MOTR wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 5:01am:

Meat, you've lost me entirely.

That's because you don't fully understand how science works.

You'll get there, eventually (hopefully). Undecided

And yet again you pretend you know something about the science yet refuse to discuss it. Here's a specific question for you. Do you accept that AGW is the most likely driver of our recent warming?

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Uncle Meat Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2434 Tasmania Gender:	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #140 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 7:35am MOTR wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 7:29am: You are a delayer, Uncle Meat. If you are waiting for absolute certainty you are a fool. Another display of your ignorance. "Absolute certainty" is not scientific. My mind is open to all possibilities.
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MOTR

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #141 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 7:44am

Again the word games. You accept AGW is a possibility that can never be proven absolutely. That means you also accept there must be a point where the weight of evidence demands action. You are avoiding any discussion about where that point may be.

Is it because you don't have enough knowledge to have that particular debate or are you too scared to face such possibilities.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Doctor Jolly Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3808	Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline. Reply #142 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:19am Uncle Meat is profiling exactly to the deniers handbook. Step 1. Question the science no matter how absurd your question is. Step 2. Bog down the argument with obscure scemantics. Step 3. Never give up.
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Uncle Meat

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #143 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:25am

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:19am:

Uncle Meat is profiling exactly to the deniers handbook.

Step 1. Question the science no matter how absurd your question is.

Step 2. Bog down the argument with obscure scemantics.

Step 3. Never give up.

Incorrect. I'm a sceptic, not a denier. My posts are demonstrable evidence of this. Get your facts straight.

Yes, I'll always question science. That's what science is about.

No, I have no time for games involving semantics. That's what the AGW disciples have been continually doing. I just deal in facts.

And, there's nothing to "give up". I'm not fighting for anything: I'm merely questioning the validity of the AGW hypothesis.

Chillax.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #144 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:37am

Uncle Meat wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:25am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:19am:

Uncle Meat is profiling exactly to the deniers handbook.

Step 1. Question the science no matter how absurd your question is.

Step 2. Bog down the argument with obscure scemantics.

Step 3. Never give up.

Incorrect. I'm a sceptic, not a denier. My posts are demonstrable evidence of this. Get your facts straight.

Yes, I'll always question science. That's what science is about.

No, I have no time for games involving semantics. That's what the AGW disciples have been continually doing. I just deal in facts.

And, there's nothing to "give up". I'm not fighting for anything: I'm merely questioning the validity of the AGW hypothesis.

Chillax.

There is no such thing as a AGW skeptic anymore, Same as there is no such thing as a spherical-earth skeptic any more.

Both concepts are so well proven, anyone "questioning" them is just a denier.

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Uncle Meat

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #145 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 2:08pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:37am:

There is no such thing as a AGW skeptic anymore, Same as there is no such thing as a spherical-earth skeptic any more.

Both concepts are so well proven, anyone "questioning" them is just a denier.

Well, you've pretty much destroyed any credibility you had with this one post.

It turns out that you are in fact the denier: there are indeed many AGW sceptics. Just because you don't agree with them it doesn't mean they don't exist.

And, a hypothesis can be disproven, but not proven to be true. There is no such thing as scientific proof.

Climate change is a scientific issue. You seem to keep forgetting that.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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people died for this!

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #146 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 4:53pm

MOTR wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 6:06am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 8:41pm:

Why will you allow china to increase?
You seem only worried about it when it is a western country?
Reverse racism?

I've been to China several times. I've seen the affluent suburbs of Shanghai but I've also seen the frugal existence of the vast majority. Individually, the Chinese have very small carbon footprints. However, China has become the factory of the world and is now emitting more greenhouse gases than any other country. Most of the greenhouse gases coming from China are a function of our GHG intensive lifestyles, not the lifestyles of the Chinese.

We are asking the Chinese people to cap their level of emissions at a point well below that of the developed world. Just as we have seen our economic development as an inalienable right, so too do the Chinese. We are asking the Chinese to make a much larger sacrifice than us and they are in a powerful enough position to say no.

I have no problem with a global agreement that gives some concessions to developing countries. It's actually not a controversial position, Avram, it has been at the heart of all global agreements to date and it is a position wholeheartedly supported by Israel. There is nothing racist about the position I have taken.

The jews want you to do their hating for them!!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #147 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 4:55pm

Uncle Meat wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:37am:

There is no such thing as a AGW skeptic anymore, Same as there is no such thing as a spherical-earth skeptic any more.

Both concepts are so well proven, anyone "questioning" them is just a denier.

Well, you've pretty much destroyed any credibility you had with this one post.

It turns out that you are in fact the denier: there are indeed many AGW sceptics. Just because you don't agree with them it doesn't mean they don't exist.

And, a hypothesis can be disproven, but not proven to be true. There is no such thing as scientific proof.

Climate change is a scientific issue. You seem to keep forgetting that.

Uncle Meat can't understand that no one denies the earth is round! Cheesy

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #148 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 4:56pm

Uncle Meat wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 2:08pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:37am:

There is no such thing as a AGW skeptic anymore, Same as there is no such thing as a spherical-earth skeptic any more.

Both concepts are so well proven, anyone "questioning" them is just a denier.

Well, you've pretty much destroyed any credibility you had with this one post.

It turns out that you are in fact the denier: there are indeed many AGW sceptics. Just because you don't agree with them it doesn't mean they don't exist.

And, a hypothesis can be disproven, but not proven to be true. There is no such thing as scientific proof.

Climate change is a scientific issue. You seem to keep forgetting that.

You seem to be forgetting it.

Are you or are you not skeptical of a spherical earth ?

Are you or are you not skeptical that the speed of light is a constant ?

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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people died for this!

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Re: Record Temperatures in the Pipeline.
Reply #149 - May 23^rd, 2012 at 4:57pm

Uncle Meat wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 7:22am:

MOTR wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 5:01am:

Meat, you've lost me entirely.

That's because you don't fully understand how science works.

You'll get there, eventually (hopefully). Undecided

Uncle Meat simply cannot understand that there is no way possible to chew up all the internets address space with word salad!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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