metal_j wrote on May 16^th, 2012 at 10:39pm:


I din't know where they source the motors from. Certainly not from Holden !! However I assume they build their own motor controller electronics

It could run forever on nothing else but clean air but if it has a Ford or Holden badge on it I wouldnt touch it with a barge pole 

Quantum wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 3:59pm:


that's why they build coal fired power stations right next to a coal pit. Not much energy used to transport or refine it

Where does the oil come from and how much energy is used to transport and refine it and then re-transport it again and pump it into your car ?? A very lengthy and inefficient process !!

Also torque is highest at stall with an electric car.

And the electric car is not supposed to be a world saviour. It's supposed to encourage people to use alternative clean energy sources as opposed to petrol vehicles which ALWAYS will use dirty sources.

Just work out how much you spend at the fool bowser and how much you could save if you invested in your own rooftop PV array to offset your usage in charging up an EV from a renewable clean source which costs you nothing and is not going to disappear like oil is !! You don't have this option with a fossil fool vehicle where the oil and petrol will only get more expensive as more people use it and it becomes more scarce.

Sir lastnail wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 5:57pm:


I know when Torque is at it highest in an electric car... the expert on the video obviously doesn't.

You are still ignoring the other issues with electric cars.

Where do the batteries come from? How are they made? How much of an environmental impact does it make to mine the materials, then ship those materials around the world to construct them into batteries, then ship those batteries to the factory to put them in the car? Also, when the car is getting on in years, what do you do when the batteries need replacing? How much of them is recyclable and how much is just waist?

Now back to the energy issue. Yes you have to transport oil around the world and refine it. Yes it takes energy. But you are kidding yourself if you think building a power plant near a coal mine makes it near zero energy. It takes a huge amount of energy to get coal out of the ground, and when it is out it can't just be chucked into a power station. It to has to be prepared, often crushed up before it can be burned. In many places oil comes out itself and takes little to get into a ship. Yes it takes a lot of energy to get the oil to the pump ready for use, but coal also requires huge amounts of energy before it can start making electricity.

Now looking at the actual cars, when you put petrol in a car, about 70-75% is waisted. Only 25-30% actually moves the car. It is horribly inefficient. Diesel is a lot better at about 40% (Some can even get 50% in the right circumstances), but still not great (only due to a higher compression ratio can Diesel get such good figures compared to petrol.)

Now lets look at electric. When the coal goes into the power station, only about 30% comes out as usable power. The other 70% is waisted. Then that electricity needs to be spread around the state, sometimes travelling hundreds of Km before getting to the outlet. In this time power is being lost all the way. When you plug your car into the outlet the battery gets charged, but a lot of that electrical energy is being waisted charging the battery. This is why batteries get hot when you charge them because they are wasting energy. Then when it is time to drive, the battery puts out electricity to the motor. In this, more energy is waited, hence why the battery gets hot when in use. Once the electricity actually gets to the motor, the motor waist about another 10% converting it to kinetic energy. 

This means to move an electric car from A to B it needs more energy than a fossil fuel car to go the same distance (this isn't even taking into account the fact that carrying all those batteries and electrical equipment around requires more energy than a lighter conventional car). That energy for the electric car in Australia comes from coal. How is that helping the environment?

The only way we will ever have clean transport (or as clean as you can get) is when you have Trams/Trains/Personal Pods on a grid/Trolley Bus, all being moved by solar power (or something else that makes low pollution). Anything else is just moving the pollution somewhere else and patting ourselves on the back as been "green". Electric cars in Australia at the moment are a sick joke, duping people into thinking they are doing something for the environment.         

adelcrow wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 6:50pm:


No the argument relies on TODAY. Reality. Not some idea of what may happen in the future.

Right here and right now, if you want to get from A to B by car, it is better for the environment if it is a fossil fuel car over electrical.

Buying electrical cars today is not going to help shift the electrical gird from coal to something cleaner. If anything it only increases energy demand which may only prolong the use of fossil fuel electrical power as it is the cheaper option at the moment.

An electrical car being powered by a solar station is much better than a car running on petrol. But we are not there yet.

Quantum wrote on May 17^th, 2012 at 7:10pm:


So how is your job at BP going ??

you sound like an oily stooge

what absolute rubbish you are talking !!

just wait till petrol hits $2 per liter. You'll still be singing the same bullshit tune about how it's great to take it up the arse at the fossil fool bowser

this local dude did his own EV conversion on an old clapped out Ford Capri. Now it only costs him a few bucks a week to run his EV from his own power point Forget about the weekly discount cycle at the fossil fool bowser and getting screwed on public holidays !! What a scam that is



And look at all of the other advantages

No oil changes,
No oil filter,
No fuel filter,
No timing belt,
No air filter,
No spark plugs,
No fan belts,
No injectors to clean,
No radiator and hoses,
No expensive automatic transmission,
No expensive manual gear box,
No head gasket to blow up,
No exhaust pipe or tail pipe emissions,
No grease monkey telling you lies and ripping you off

It's a win win for the consumer

Sir lastnail wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 12:02am:


Firstly, because a mobile phone without a battery doesn't work. We don't need huge batteries in car at the moment because we have ones that run on petrol and diesel. It is apples and oranges.

Secondly, several hundred electric cars will have more batteries then every mobile phone in the country combined. It is a massive use for materials that will not help the environment while we are still using coal generated electricity.   


Quote:


Sure I would. That's why I said this;

The only way we will ever have clean transport (or as clean as you can get) is when you have Trams/Trains/Personal Pods on a grid/Trolley Bus, all being moved by solar power (or something else that makes low pollution).   

Of course I want to get rid of electric transport and replace it with dirty fossil fuels.

Do you even read what people say, or do you just assume their position and then argue against it?

My whole argument has been clean up the grid, then use electrical transport. Don't use electrical transport while we are still suing coal.

Quote:


Do you honestly think that electric cars do not need servicing? That they have no wearable components? Do you have any mechanical knowledge at all?

Quote:


But we are not there yet. Electrical cars with their short range are not going to be taken up in regional areas and outer suburbs. The biggest sales of electrical cars will be in the city. These people mostly live in units! They can't put panels on their roof, they have to use the grid.

In the near future in the real world people will charge their electric cars from power points in their units garage, at work, at shopping centres, and at other recharge points. For the near future all this power will come from coal. Solar panels from houses in the outer suburbs will not add enough to the power grid to replace coal. If lots of electric cars join our roads the nations power use will be even greater.

Basically, the energy use by our nation with electric cars would be increasing at a faster rate than what can be supplemented by personal solar panels. It needs grid change to make a real difference.       


Quote:


and

Quote:


If I work for an oil company what do you work for? A coal company?

This clearly has nothing to do with what's best for the environment. This is all political points to you. You just want to argue for electric cars because you have no idea what your talking about.

My argument is that we should move to electrical transport when our electricity is being generated by cleaner means. You just want to go electrical tomorrow even if it means a worse impact on the environment.

Why not do it right, instead of just rushing into anything that has a fake 'green' label?

Sir lastnail wrote on May 18^th, 2012 at 11:01am:


You're an idiot. I support electric cars. I have said it several times now. Just not ones that use coal produced electricity.

You are obviously unable to read what people say, nor are you capable of having a reasonable debate.

No wonder political discussion in this nation is stuffed. People like you don't care about facts, its all about screaming your own ignorant views. Grow up.