Australian Politics Forum - Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov

adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov Reply #15 - May 5^th, 2012 at 9:26am So Socialism is ok as long as it only applies to wealthy private schools and the private health sector? Strange logic to say the least...in the USA any govt that did that would be accused of rampant communism.
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Maqqa

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Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov
Reply #16 - May 5^th, 2012 at 9:28am

Johnsmith wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:19am:

Maqqa wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 8:50am:

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 7:10am:

Howard diverted billions dollars of public funds to the exclusive private schools so its no wonder there is a problem funding public schools.
An overhaul of Howards system of robbing poor families of a decent education just so the elite can have expensive latte machines and manicured tennis courts has always been a disgrace and is a long time coming.

So how would you have done it without discriminating?

Isn't the whole liberal mantra about letting the market forces decide? If these private schools can't cut it in the real world without government funding, they shouldn't be there. Its hypocrisy on the liberal parties end to scream about market forces until they are blue in the face, and then subsidies these private enterprises with money that is desperately needed by our public schools.

No it's not!!

If you look at the history of the Liberal Party - a simple Wiki would suffice - you will see that it has it's roots in the Labor party. It was a break away group.

However the Labor party would like to demonise the LIBs with the same brush as the silver spooners in the UK.

The Liberal party you see today is really a centre-right party. It believes in allowing some influences of market forces.

The Labor party today is a centre-left ie it believes more government intervention.

There main difference between the two parties are not policies and ideals - it's more implementation of those ideals.

So you can continue to believe the lies being spread by the Greens - but now you can no longer say you didn't know!!

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov
Reply #17 - May 5^th, 2012 at 9:30am

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:26am:

So Socialism is ok as long as it only applies to wealthy private schools and the private health sector?
Strange logic to say the least...in the USA any govt that did that would be accused of rampant communism.

So you don't know anything other than to repeat the rhetoric of the ALP and their union mates!!!

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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adelcrow

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Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov
Reply #18 - May 5^th, 2012 at 9:35am

Maqqa wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:26am:

So Socialism is ok as long as it only applies to wealthy private schools and the private health sector?
Strange logic to say the least...in the USA any govt that did that would be accused of rampant communism.

So you don't know anything other than to repeat the rhetoric of the ALP and their union mates!!!

Ask any American if they want their elite private schools and private health sector propped up by taxpayers..they will call you a dirty communist.
Try it and see what reaction you get.

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov
Reply #19 - May 5^th, 2012 at 10:11am

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:35am:

Maqqa wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:26am:

So Socialism is ok as long as it only applies to wealthy private schools and the private health sector?
Strange logic to say the least...in the USA any govt that did that would be accused of rampant communism.

So you don't know anything other than to repeat the rhetoric of the ALP and their union mates!!!

Ask any American if they want their elite private schools and private health sector propped up by taxpayers..they will call you a dirty communist.
Try it and see what reaction you get.

But we are not talking about the American system - we are referring to the Australian Westminster system

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Johnsmith

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Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov
Reply #20 - May 5^th, 2012 at 1:43pm

Maqqa wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:28am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:19am:

Maqqa wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 8:50am:

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 7:10am:

Howard diverted billions dollars of public funds to the exclusive private schools so its no wonder there is a problem funding public schools.
An overhaul of Howards system of robbing poor families of a decent education just so the elite can have expensive latte machines and manicured tennis courts has always been a disgrace and is a long time coming.

So how would you have done it without discriminating?

Isn't the whole liberal mantra about letting the market forces decide? If these private schools can't cut it in the real world without government funding, they shouldn't be there. Its hypocrisy on the liberal parties end to scream about market forces until they are blue in the face, and then subsidies these private enterprises with money that is desperately needed by our public schools.

No it's not!!

If you look at the history of the Liberal Party - a simple Wiki would suffice - you will see that it has it's roots in the Labor party. It was a break away group.

However the Labor party would like to demonise the LIBs with the same brush as the silver spooners in the UK.

The Liberal party you see today is really a centre-right party. It believes in allowing some influences of market forces.

The Labor party today is a centre-left ie it believes more government intervention.

There main difference between the two parties are not policies and ideals - it's more implementation of those ideals.

So you can continue to believe the lies being spread by the Greens - but now you can no longer say you didn't know!!

Don't care about the roots of the party , someone had a good idea, good or bad, but politicians being what they are would have stuffed that up. Do you think the liberal party has followed the ideology that it claimed when it was first established? or does it chop and change to suit over time? ... ... Mr fat slob shadow treasurer Hockey has several times said on national TV that he believes government shouldn't interfere (in automotive industry for example) and that the market will take care of itself ... now if he is going to use that excuse, then he should apply it across the board, and not just when it suits him ... forgetting market forces when it comes to helping his mates while shouting the benefits of market forces when it suits him is HYPOCRISY in the largest order

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adelcrow

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Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov
Reply #21 - May 5^th, 2012 at 2:06pm

Howard loved to hand out billions of taxpayers dollars to the elite institutions that supported him. He did this by cutting funding to public education and health and never forget is was Toni Abbott that lied about cuts to public health during an election campaign.
We either shovel out taxpayers money equally to all private institutions and businesses or we dont do it at all.

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longweekend58

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Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov
Reply #22 - May 5^th, 2012 at 3:43pm

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 7:10am:

Howard diverted billions dollars of public funds to the exclusive private schools so its no wonder there is a problem funding public schools.
An overhaul of Howards system of robbing poor families of a decent education just so the elite can have expensive latte machines and manicured tennis courts has always been a disgrace and is a long time coming.

Total garbage. No money was taken from public schools. Just new money given to private schools. The public school problem has little to do with funding. Finland has almost no private schools at all and their funding is lower than ours yet they have arguably the best learning outcomes on the planet. Why? welll... virtually no education dept or education union running the place. The schools are run almost independently by teh principls and school board. they can hire and fire and pay performance bonuses and sack those that are no good. In other words, they operate exactly like private schools do and the outcomes are similarly superior.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov
Reply #23 - May 5^th, 2012 at 3:44pm

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:35am:

Maqqa wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:26am:

So Socialism is ok as long as it only applies to wealthy private schools and the private health sector?
Strange logic to say the least...in the USA any govt that did that would be accused of rampant communism.

So you don't know anything other than to repeat the rhetoric of the ALP and their union mates!!!

Ask any American if they want their elite private schools and private health sector propped up by taxpayers..they will call you a dirty communist.
Try it and see what reaction you get.

wow what a devastating argument... America with the worst health system in the western world AND the worsts public education system in the world. And you think we should emulate them?

Thanks for making a killer argument for the OTHER side of what you believe in.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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adelcrow

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Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov
Reply #24 - May 5^th, 2012 at 3:46pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:35am:

Maqqa wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:26am:

So Socialism is ok as long as it only applies to wealthy private schools and the private health sector?
Strange logic to say the least...in the USA any govt that did that would be accused of rampant communism.

So you don't know anything other than to repeat the rhetoric of the ALP and their union mates!!!

Ask any American if they want their elite private schools and private health sector propped up by taxpayers..they will call you a dirty communist.
Try it and see what reaction you get.

wow what a devastating argument... America with the worst health system in the western world AND the worsts public education system in the world. And you think we should emulate them?

Thanks for making a killer argument for the OTHER side of what you believe in.

Thats not what I said..
I said you fellas sure love Socialism when it suits you.

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nairbe

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Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov
Reply #25 - May 5^th, 2012 at 5:17pm

cods wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 7:36am:

nairbe wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 6:36am:

I agree with the commission. The system of performance review and employment structure for teachers is appalling. The teachers union needs putting in it's place and teachers put on performance based pay and stop hiding behind children. I don't blame teachers, i blame 40 years of state government and the union who both have failed to act in the best interest of teachers and students never mind the complete failure of government on all levels in public education.

what would you do if you were education minister??

.... you seem to dislike everything that been or being done??..

btw the teachers union is one of the most militant . and immoveable.

when my son was in high school he had two teachers he couldnt understand...one Irish, one Indian..the Indian lady was his science teacher..

how you expect to hold their attention let alone teach them anything. when they cant understand how you speak...is beyond me..

OK cods, being that i am a parent with three in school and have been involved in P&C as well as management of a major school renovation project i do have some ideas.

Teachers should be paid on performance not years of service.
- Schools should be grouped into area administrations so teachers can be moved around schools to keep it fresh
  - Teachers should be hired and fired by the school group.
    - teachers should only have 4 weeks leave and be required to be at the schiool working other wise
      - the union should be given an ultimatum, get with the program or all staff will be terminated and teacher re employed on contract only
        
        There is a really good pilot scheme running in some schools where teachers are reviewed monthly. It has had great success.
        
        http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/02/06/3421391.htm

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"Faced with what is right, to leave it undone shows a lack of courage."
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longweekend58

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Re: Productivity Commission slams Gillard gov
Reply #26 - May 5^th, 2012 at 5:20pm

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 3:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:35am:

Maqqa wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

adelcrow wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 9:26am:

So Socialism is ok as long as it only applies to wealthy private schools and the private health sector?
Strange logic to say the least...in the USA any govt that did that would be accused of rampant communism.

So you don't know anything other than to repeat the rhetoric of the ALP and their union mates!!!

Ask any American if they want their elite private schools and private health sector propped up by taxpayers..they will call you a dirty communist.
Try it and see what reaction you get.

wow what a devastating argument... America with the worst health system in the western world AND the worsts public education system in the world. And you think we should emulate them?

Thanks for making a killer argument for the OTHER side of what you believe in.

Thats not what I said..
I said you fellas sure love Socialism when it suits you.

no. you used possibly the worst argument possible. but being a Green, we are used to that.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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