Fluoridation is a violation of the individual's right to informed consent to medication. Fluoride is not an essential nutrient. The chemicals used to fluoridate water supplies are largely hazardous by-products of the fertilizer industry. Once fluoride is added to water, there is no way to control who gets the drug or how much is ingested. Certain subgroups are particularly affected by fluoridation.
People vary considerably in their sensitivity to any toxic substance, including fluoride. Infants, the elderly, diabetics, those with poor nutrition (e.g. low calcium and low iodine), and those with kidney disease are especially vulnerable to specific adverse effects of fluoride.

petition: stop water fluoridation on thepetitionsite
thepetitionsite.com/294/987/043/stop-water-fluoridation/

You could say very similar things about chlorination of water supplies. Both are used to control public health risks. You can't just ignore public health issues just because some misguided cretin who thinks he knows everything comes forward and talks about the hazards of fluorine, chlorine, vaccination etc.

Of course fluoridation and chlorination carry risks of their own. Just about everything we do carries risk, but the risks that these measures  address are far greater than the risks that they present. 

When was the last cholera epidemic in Australia? A long time ago, perhaps? That's a consequence of the use of oxidizing biocides in public drinking water.

When was the last Polio case or smallpox case in Australia?

What about dental health statistics? How many people have died as a consequence of poor dental health? How many people have been saved as a result of fluoridation of public water supplies? Why does the vast majority of dentists and health professionals support fluoridation? (The bastards - obviously on the take. They just become doctors so that they can get rich )

How many people have actually died as a result of fluoridation? (Use a reliable source)

While we're talking about freedom, you are perfectly free to use rainwater, or buy one of these marvellous devices called water filters, water vitalisers etc. For just $49.99 (and you get a free set of steak knives) you too can remove all the contaminants from drinking water. Just think - you'd be able to drink pure drinking water - free of chlorine, fluorine..... and of course minerals.  I understand that the flowers in your garden will personally thank you if you install one.

Of course, such water filters are totally without risk themselves.....are they not? Google Nosocomial Pseudomonas pickettii. (and that's just the tip of the iceberg.) 

Now it's wonderful that you take such an interest in public health. Here is an excellent course that you can take. There are also a few prerequisites for entry, but I'm sure you'll wing it.

http://www.monash.edu.au/study/coursefinder/course/0046/

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Ok, off you go. When you have studied long and hard, and have completed your Masters in Public Health, please come back here and tell us the truth. It's far more satisfying to know the facts in depth as opposed to being an instant expert who learned everything he knows from Facebook (etc).

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 8:51am:

Should public health issues be decided by democracy? Now there's a topic for you. It's like anything else - you have to have consultation, but in the end government needs to draw on all sources - public consultation and expert opinion.  The day we stop listening to  expert opinion will be the beginning of the end.

I remember attending a public meeting on the redesign of a street.  Some people in the public meeting would have designed something that would have caused accidents. We have standards in things like road design for a good reason.  This is a similar issue.

this is the same argument that some of the yuppy hippies in Byron Bay use to avoid immunisation ... Whooping cough was vitually wiped out in Australia until some drug buggered hippies in Byron decided they wouldn't immunise because there was a 1 / 100000000000000000000000000 chance that they might have side effects. Whopping cough is now approaching record numbers in northern NSW and SE Queensland ... My 2 yr old boy caught it last year despite being immunised, and thankfully he is fine,doctors say that the fact that he was immunised reduced the symptoms, but it could have turned out worse. Now I have a one week old baby, and I'm praying that this year is skips past us ... he is too young for immunisation shots ... with these sort of issues I think the public good has to come ahead of the individuals rights. If those hippies had been immunised, there is a good chance whooping cough in Australia would have ceased to exist, now we run the risk of spreading it around again.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 10:05am:


Rubbish, some vacines need topping up every 10 years.

I know whooping cough and tooth decay are different, but the priciple is the same, the good of the community over the rights of an individual ..... that doesn't mean I agree one way or the other that flouride in water is good for the community, that I'll leave for the experts to debate.

Someone is misguided, but it's not me, neither dentists (like some in Cairns) who admit:

-that fluoride must have an effect on thyroid and iodine.
-that for adults fluoride has no benefit, none or wharsoever, since if your teeth are bad, you will have
tooth decay by the age of 20, after that, you won't get it anymore.
- that the single cause of tooth decay is refined sugar. If you don't eat or drink sugar you won't get tooth decay.
- that since fluoride has been introduced, dentists don't see  much change in kids' tooth decay, because  kids who have regular dental care don't need fluoride anyway as those kids do take care of their teeth, by eating healthy, brushing regularly etc.
The ones who do need the fluoride are those kids who eat unhealthy, and who's parents are irresponsible.
It's cheaper for the Gov to put fluoride in the water, than to get FREE dental treatment for these people.

These are not my words, but of a reputable dentist.
There are also many studies which prove that fluoride has no benefit.
These by the way are no secret, they well known facts.
Only misguided ignorant people wouldn't understand this.

Also it is true that Just about everything we do carries risk as mentioned by muso, however it doesn't justify to add an extra one to it.
Comparing cholera and polio to tooth decay is pathetic.

I can't post the picture (yet) sent by General Manager Water & Waste Cairns of the actual sodium fluoride bag, the one they put into our water supply. But if you wish to have a look you at it, you can pm me.

mysstic wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:


Fluoride is a poison if you drink it at a high enough concentration. All these effects will be manifested at high concentrations. That's why they add it at extremely low concentrations (around 1 part per million), and that's why there is no evidence of increased thyroid disorders in areas that have fluoridation. I'd like to see some of the cases of hyperthyroidism from Australia that you claim to be caused by fluoridation. It's usually quite obvious if somebody was exposed to high concentrations of fluoride. They have a distinctive mottling of the teeth. In the absence of that, it's obvious that it must have been from other causes.

The area around Eldoret in Kenya is a case in point. The natural level of fluoride  in the water is approximately one hundred  times that of the concentration in drinking water in Australia. All the crops contain fluoride from natural deposits  Hyperthyroidism is reasonably common in Eldoret, in common with  many other areas where cassava(manioc)  is a staple food crop, however the latest evidence shows that the main cause of that is the cyanide content of the cassava, which metabolises to thiocyanate and which causes hyperthyroidism. Although that has clear links with hypothyroidism, it doesn't cause mottling of the teeth, and that's how it's possible to distinguish between the two. 

So who exactly are the members of this illustrious band of Cairns dentists who all claim to be specialists in thyroid ailments? They are clearly quite multi-talented individuals and it would be nice to meet them.

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All true. It doesn't benefit absolutely everybody, especially if you're an adult whose teeth have fallen out,  and it doesn't harm anyone either. It's perfectly good logic, but it's about as informative as saying that a person who has both feet amputated will have no benefit whatsoever from a  pedicure.

If you can persuade the entire population to stop eating sweet foods and drinks, and to brush their teeth regularly, perhaps fluoride would not be required.   


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True.  They wouldn't see any difference in those people who actually go to the dentist.  The main impact is for the large section of the population who neither take care of their teeth nor bother going to a dentist.  The complications are what costs the public money and causes the health problems. They don't see the benefit because they don't see the people who don't visit them. Makes complete sense.

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True,  but even if you offer it free, a large number will not take it up.  Hence the advantage of fluoridation.

On your point about mass medication, what do you classify as mass medication? If you add chlorine to drinking water because it kills bacteria, is that mass medication?

Actually chlorine is another good example of a poison. Drink straight domestos and it will more than likely kill you. Chlorine at about the 1ppm level in drinking water on the other hand will cause little or no harm. The exposure standards and the working concentrations of Fluoride and hypochlorite are about the same. Fluoride is slightly lower toxicity than chlorine (sodium hypochlorite) and they are both used at about the same working concentration. 

Sodium Hypochlorite:
- Acute oral toxicity:  IV; LD50, 192 mg/kg (ACGIH)

Sodium Fluoride
Oral, rabbit: LD50 = 200 mg/kg; (ACGIH)


Back to "mass medication" If you give somebody antibiotics to kill the same bacteria,now  that would count as medication.

What about the compulsory addition of vitamins to cereals? Is that mass medication too?