Australian Politics Forum - SUBs Verses NBN

longweekend58

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #45 - May 4^th, 2012 at 5:34pm

Gist wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:00pm:

he asked what new industries would spring up and you gave him NOTHING. ans nobody ever does becasue there wont be anything new.

So your ban is over eh? For now... won't be long until another one! Cheesy

Oh and yeah, you're right. There's no such thing as innovation in rightyretardworld where you reign supreme. Just like there's infinite supplies of oil.

However most of us live on planet Earth, not in rightyretardworld.

you might make a more cogent argument if you could actually give and example of a new technology or industry that the NBN gives us that we currently cant. Since the standard offering is basically the same speed and ability as ADLS 2+ the argument that the NBN will revolutionise us seems ludicrous at best or more likely - fantasy.

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Gist

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #46 - May 4^th, 2012 at 5:42pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:34pm:

you might make a more cogent argument if you could actually give and example of a new technology or industry that the NBN gives us that we currently cant. Since the standard offering is basically the same speed and ability as ADLS 2+ the argument that the NBN will revolutionise us seems ludicrous at best or more likely - fantasy.

An artificial constraint which can be easily lifted as demand increases. The important thing is that the infrastructure is there. If it isn't there then we're stuffed with nowhere to go.

Hell! Cobb & Co did pretty well getting the message delivered! So why bother upgrading infrastructure?

Typical righty thinking.

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longweekend58

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #47 - May 4^th, 2012 at 5:51pm

Gist wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:34pm:

you might make a more cogent argument if you could actually give and example of a new technology or industry that the NBN gives us that we currently cant. Since the standard offering is basically the same speed and ability as ADLS 2+ the argument that the NBN will revolutionise us seems ludicrous at best or more likely - fantasy.

An artificial constraint which can be easily lifted as demand increases. The important thing is that the infrastructure is there. If it isn't there then we're stuffed with nowhere to go.

Hell! Cobb & Co did pretty well getting the message delivered! So why bother upgrading infrastructure?

Typical righty thinking.

so in essence what you are saying is that you too have no idea what you are going to do with it either. THAT is the failing in the NBN case; that we are spending $50B on a network with no identificable benefits beyons the 15% that currently cannot get ADSL 2+. thats a lot of money for not much payoff.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Gist

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #48 - May 4^th, 2012 at 6:35pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

so in essence what you are saying is that you too have no idea what you are going to do with it either. THAT is the failing in the NBN case; that we are spending $50B on a network with no identificable benefits beyons the 15% that currently cannot get ADSL 2+. thats a lot of money for not much payoff.

In essence I am saying that I'm not in the business of gazing at crystal balls trying to guess what technology will come about tomorrow.

But anyone with any sense can see that demand is growing rapidly. Ten years ago if someone had told me that I'd be downloading entire CDs and movies from some site somewhere I'd have laughed at them. And I'm in the industry! Today we have servers that don't physically exist being hosted on other servers which could be anywhere in the world running critical applications that I can control from my bedroom. I do it every morning while I'm having my coffee in bed. No kidding.

The NBN isn't for anything. It's infrastructure. It's an enabler. It enables other things to happen. And it represents a huge increase in capacity that we're going to need regardless. If we didn't do it now as a concerted project then it would have to be done piecemeal later at much higher cost and with poorer outcomes. You'd get the situation just as now where a big chunk of the population gets stuff all service at ripoff prices.

By including them, they have the opportunity to contribute. It means regional centres can compete in certain industries just as effectively as CBDs. That finally allows some provision for decentralisation which is sorely needed in Australia - certainly in Sydney and Melbourne. The current centralisation into a few big cities costs Australia enormously in terms of having to build road and public transport infrastructure, higher housing costs, etc, etc. The NBN enables that to be alleviated. What savings would that generate?

Tell me, what benefit was there in installing the existing copper network? How much did that cost? Seems YOU wouldn't have built it.

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Johnsmith

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #49 - May 4^th, 2012 at 8:48pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

Gist wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:34pm:

you might make a more cogent argument if you could actually give and example of a new technology or industry that the NBN gives us that we currently cant. Since the standard offering is basically the same speed and ability as ADLS 2+ the argument that the NBN will revolutionise us seems ludicrous at best or more likely - fantasy.

An artificial constraint which can be easily lifted as demand increases. The important thing is that the infrastructure is there. If it isn't there then we're stuffed with nowhere to go.

Hell! Cobb & Co did pretty well getting the message delivered! So why bother upgrading infrastructure?

Typical righty thinking.

so in essence what you are saying is that you too have no idea what you are going to do with it either. THAT is the failing in the NBN case; that we are spending $50B on a network with no identificable benefits beyons the 15% that currently cannot get ADSL 2+. thats a lot of money for not much payoff.

if anyone here could predict future technology, they probably wouldn't be on here but out there making money ... I didn't predict the Internet 30 years ago, but like magic, here it is .. i didn't predict mobile phones ... but guess what, I've got one too .... the fact is the sky's the limit in what we can do with the NBN, the only problem is that most people won't realise exactly what it is we can do with it until someone smarter shows them

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #50 - May 5^th, 2012 at 12:41pm

____ wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 9:15am:

Priority, which is more important for Australia

A modern fleet of Subs for over $40 billion

or a modern National Broadband for around the same price.

If one had to be cut back, which one would you like to see cut and why?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmn?

THE COST OF FREEDOM AY?

SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT, BECAUSE HOWARD SPENT ALL THAT MONEY ON ADVERTSING ALL THE SILVER SPOONERS RECKON WE CAN'T AFFORD AN NBN EVEN THOUGH WE ARE BUILDING FRIGGING CHINA?

Shocked

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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nairbe

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #51 - May 5^th, 2012 at 12:50pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

so in essence what you are saying is that you too have no idea what you are going to do with it either. THAT is the failing in the NBN case; that we are spending $50B on a network with no identificable benefits beyons the 15% that currently cannot get ADSL 2+. thats a lot of money for not much payoff.

Where the hell did you get 50 billion from. My god there is no lie you won't tell to try and defend your ignorance is there. It is 36 billion down from 45 billion because of the telstra deal.

And if you don't already understand why it will pay and what it will be used for you should stay away from the debate. The matter is the new uses that have not been yet conceived that sure as hell will never happen on wireless.

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"Faced with what is right, to leave it undone shows a lack of courage."
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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #52 - May 5^th, 2012 at 12:56pm

nairbe wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 12:50pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

so in essence what you are saying is that you too have no idea what you are going to do with it either. THAT is the failing in the NBN case; that we are spending $50B on a network with no identificable benefits beyons the 15% that currently cannot get ADSL 2+. thats a lot of money for not much payoff.

Where the hell did you get 50 billion from. My god there is no lie you won't tell to try and defend your ignorance is there. It is 36 billion down from 45 billion because of the telstra deal.

And if you don't already understand why it will pay and what it will be used for you should stay away from the debate. The matter is the new uses that have not been yet conceived that sure as hell will never happen on wireless.

LONGWEEKEND DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE NBN DEBATE!

SIMPLE!!

hE SIMPLY WANTS TO STICK HIS HAND DOWN EVERY SINGLE PERSONS PANTS THAT HANGS AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO LET HIM DO IT!

LIKE EVERY OTHER PRETEND CONSERVATIVE IN THE WORLD!! Grin

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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NBNMyths

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #53 - May 5^th, 2012 at 2:07pm

____ wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 9:15am:

Priority, which is more important for Australia

A modern fleet of Subs for over $40 billion

or a modern National Broadband for around the same price.

If one had to be cut back, which one would you like to see cut and why?

The question is faulty.

The NBN is an off-budget investment. The "$40bn" (It's actually a total of $37bn capex, $27bn of which comes from Govt) is returned to the Govt from user revenue.

Submarines on the other hand, do not provide any financial return on investment and are funded from consolidated revenue.

For argument's sake, even if you wanted to keep the total value of Govt debt the same and therefore had to choose between the NBN and some other investment, to keep that investment off-budget would require that it also provide a positive return.

For example, you could build a toll-road or a railway that charged users a sufficient amount to cover the capital cost plus the associated interest, as for the NBN.

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Debunking the FUD on the NBN

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NBNMyths

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #54 - May 5^th, 2012 at 2:21pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 1:27pm:

Why would you roll out the NBN to people in the countryside first?

I don't know - Governments just seem very poor at making business-based decisions?

You'll never get early or decent payback rolling it to the most underpopulated regions first and excluding where the real revenue is - the capital cities.

The way I see it - it makes more cost sense to roll out a two tier plan.
One to the capital cities and populated areas.
Another less capital intensive one to areas where much fewer people are.

The NBN is actually being rolled out in both city/suburban areas and country areas at the same time. It's certainly not only the country going first. There are 121 Points of Interconnect around the nation, and work has commenced at each one, fanning outwards from them. The ACCC mandated the locations of the PoI last year, after taking submissions from the Telco industry as to the locations of their existing transit networks (A PoI is where the NBN leaves off, and the ISP's network takes over).

The reason behind this is that the NBN is about delivering infrastructure to everyone, especially those that have the poorest services now. Many city areas already have access to HFC, which will keep them going until the NBN is finished. It's not purely a business decision, it's as much a service decision.

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Debunking the FUD on the NBN

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: SUBs Verses NBN Reply #55 - May 5^th, 2012 at 2:40pm Tax payers money should not be used to fund and build cash cows for corporate maggots and 'rselickers.
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