Australian Politics Forum - SUBs Verses NBN

Johnsmith

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #30 - May 4^th, 2012 at 11:10am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:58am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:56am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:43am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:39am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 9:59am:

Yep submarines for me.

Always spend on defence.

Always.
At the end of the day when things go to sh*t, you want to be able to rely on your own capabilities to wage war and not the good friendship with others.

That is how empires fell.

I can see how it would concern you living in the USA and with England as your homeland .... but In good old OZ we're not about to get invaded by anybody anytime soon. We however, going to left so far behind the 8 ball technologically that if we don't catch up with the rest of the world soon, we run the danger of becoming another USA .... a has been.

Didn't Darwin get totally shelled by the Japs?
I don't think that was expected either.

By the way, take a look at your neighbours.

One thing I thought when I lived in Australia was that having Indonesia as neighbours all of a suddent for me made me think that having the French next door didnt seem so bad.....

Your neighbours are countries made up of millions of Muslims - with extremists in their midst - and a history of murdering innocents.

Like I said, we don't have that with France.

Darwin got shelled by Japan because we were fighting with the good old USA. Besides, we didn't have any subs then either.... and we did OK ... subs aren't a real lot of use against an aerial attack now are they

No but subs are good counter attacking measures.
Did the planes fly all the way from Tokyo or did they take off from aircraft carriers?
You'll find subs aren't too bad for taking them on....

I would think it more likely that they took of from way stations they had set up on the many islands between Tokyo and Darwin .... again, planes would be much better suited to defending against this situation .... lets face is, given Australia's land mass, we would need a few hundred subs to be able to claim it was for defensive purposes .... it's like having a dozen police officers to police all of NSW ....

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #31 - May 4^th, 2012 at 11:13am

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 11:10am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:58am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:56am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:43am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:39am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 9:59am:

Yep submarines for me.

Always spend on defence.

Always.
At the end of the day when things go to sh*t, you want to be able to rely on your own capabilities to wage war and not the good friendship with others.

That is how empires fell.

I can see how it would concern you living in the USA and with England as your homeland .... but In good old OZ we're not about to get invaded by anybody anytime soon. We however, going to left so far behind the 8 ball technologically that if we don't catch up with the rest of the world soon, we run the danger of becoming another USA .... a has been.

Didn't Darwin get totally shelled by the Japs?
I don't think that was expected either.

By the way, take a look at your neighbours.

One thing I thought when I lived in Australia was that having Indonesia as neighbours all of a suddent for me made me think that having the French next door didnt seem so bad.....

Your neighbours are countries made up of millions of Muslims - with extremists in their midst - and a history of murdering innocents.

Like I said, we don't have that with France.

Darwin got shelled by Japan because we were fighting with the good old USA. Besides, we didn't have any subs then either.... and we did OK ... subs aren't a real lot of use against an aerial attack now are they

No but subs are good counter attacking measures.
Did the planes fly all the way from Tokyo or did they take off from aircraft carriers?
You'll find subs aren't too bad for taking them on....

I would think it more likely that they took of from way stations they had set up on the many islands between Tokyo and Darwin .... again, planes would be much better suited to defending against this situation .... lets face is, given Australia's land mass, we would need a few hundred subs to be able to claim it was for defensive purposes .... it's like having a dozen police officers to police all of NSW ....

Nonsense.
For a start the likelihood of somebody coming up from Antarctica to the south is very minimal if at all.

Therefore you'd have stations in Perth covering that and the attacks from the west.

Your weak point - as has been shown through history - is the north.
You have not pleasant neighbours up there and the Asian threat.

That's your threat.

You don't just have hundreds of submarines swirling around looking for people....

I am thinking military technology and history is not your strong point?

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #32 - May 4^th, 2012 at 11:17am

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 11:10am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:58am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:56am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:43am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:39am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 9:59am:

Yep submarines for me.

Always spend on defence.

Always.
At the end of the day when things go to sh*t, you want to be able to rely on your own capabilities to wage war and not the good friendship with others.

That is how empires fell.

I can see how it would concern you living in the USA and with England as your homeland .... but In good old OZ we're not about to get invaded by anybody anytime soon. We however, going to left so far behind the 8 ball technologically that if we don't catch up with the rest of the world soon, we run the danger of becoming another USA .... a has been.

Didn't Darwin get totally shelled by the Japs?
I don't think that was expected either.

By the way, take a look at your neighbours.

One thing I thought when I lived in Australia was that having Indonesia as neighbours all of a suddent for me made me think that having the French next door didnt seem so bad.....

Your neighbours are countries made up of millions of Muslims - with extremists in their midst - and a history of murdering innocents.

Like I said, we don't have that with France.

Darwin got shelled by Japan because we were fighting with the good old USA. Besides, we didn't have any subs then either.... and we did OK ... subs aren't a real lot of use against an aerial attack now are they

No but subs are good counter attacking measures.
Did the planes fly all the way from Tokyo or did they take off from aircraft carriers?
You'll find subs aren't too bad for taking them on....

I would think it more likely that they took of from way stations they had set up on the many islands between Tokyo and Darwin .... again, planes would be much better suited to defending against this situation .... lets face is, given Australia's land mass, we would need a few hundred subs to be able to claim it was for defensive purposes .... it's like having a dozen police officers to police all of NSW ....

The Japanese launched 188 aircraft on 19th February to attack Darwin.
They took off from 4 aircraft carriers Akaqi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu - these carriers were escorted by a several surface destroyers.

All 4 took part in the Pearl Harbor attack on the United States.

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Johnsmith

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #33 - May 4^th, 2012 at 11:19am

BigOl64 wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 11:09am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 11:06am:

BigOl64 wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 11:04am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:56am:

Darwin got shelled by Japan because we were fighting with the good old USA. Besides, we didn't have any subs then either.... and we did OK ... subs aren't a real lot of use against an aerial attack now are they

History and facts not one of your strong point, hey?

We were fighting the japs long before the US entered the war, the jap invasion plans were based on imperial expansionism, not who happened to be our allies at the time.

If you are totally devoid of knowledge in a given subject, might I suggest not posting any replies.

might I suggest you go and bugger yourself?

Maybe you should not write utter crap and then expect people to let it slide, that way you won't have to resort to personal insults.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but I really couldn't give a crap what you think. Let it slide, don't let it slide, good luck to you. USA may not have entered the war yet, but given their plans were to attack Pearl Harbour, they knew we would side with USA and that the US A's would present their largest problem ... by attacking and eliminating any staging points that would allow the USA to counter attack, they were trying to limit the US A's abilities .... it could have put a real dent in their expansion programmes to have the US navy based in Darwin or Pearl Harbour ... the further away the US had to base their operations, the less the risk to Japan. Now, like i said before , go and bugger yourself.

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Johnsmith

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #34 - May 4^th, 2012 at 11:25am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 11:10am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:58am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:56am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:43am:

Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:39am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 9:59am:

Yep submarines for me.

Always spend on defence.

Always.
At the end of the day when things go to sh*t, you want to be able to rely on your own capabilities to wage war and not the good friendship with others.

That is how empires fell.

I can see how it would concern you living in the USA and with England as your homeland .... but In good old OZ we're not about to get invaded by anybody anytime soon. We however, going to left so far behind the 8 ball technologically that if we don't catch up with the rest of the world soon, we run the danger of becoming another USA .... a has been.

Didn't Darwin get totally shelled by the Japs?
I don't think that was expected either.

By the way, take a look at your neighbours.

One thing I thought when I lived in Australia was that having Indonesia as neighbours all of a suddent for me made me think that having the French next door didnt seem so bad.....

Your neighbours are countries made up of millions of Muslims - with extremists in their midst - and a history of murdering innocents.

Like I said, we don't have that with France.

Darwin got shelled by Japan because we were fighting with the good old USA. Besides, we didn't have any subs then either.... and we did OK ... subs aren't a real lot of use against an aerial attack now are they

No but subs are good counter attacking measures.
Did the planes fly all the way from Tokyo or did they take off from aircraft carriers?
You'll find subs aren't too bad for taking them on....

I would think it more likely that they took of from way stations they had set up on the many islands between Tokyo and Darwin .... again, planes would be much better suited to defending against this situation .... lets face is, given Australia's land mass, we would need a few hundred subs to be able to claim it was for defensive purposes .... it's like having a dozen police officers to police all of NSW ....

The Japanese launched 188 aircraft on 19th February to attack Darwin.
They took off from 4 aircraft carriers Akaqi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu - these carriers were escorted by a several surface destroyers.

All 4 took part in the Pearl Harbor attack on the United States.

Ok, I stand corrected, they took of from aircraft carriers, but that doesn't change the fact that Australia would be much better increasing it's aircraft numbers rather than trying to rely on such a low number of submarines that it's pointless to even try. Anyway, this is going of topic ... the NBN deals with the here and now, the subs deal with something that may happen sometime in the future ... The real threat of attack at the moment comes from terrorists, not governments, and terrorist groups don't deal with aircraft carriers and submarines ... they send one man and a bomb ... if they had used the heavy machinery, the USA would have eneded the war on terror a decade ago ... big ships, subs and planes don't help against individuals with backpacks or guns

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When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: SUBs Verses NBN Reply #35 - May 4^th, 2012 at 1:06pm Does it really matter ? Both the subs and the NbN are under water.
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #36 - May 4^th, 2012 at 1:27pm

Why would you roll out the NBN to people in the countryside first?

I don't know - Governments just seem very poor at making business-based decisions?

You'll never get early or decent payback rolling it to the most underpopulated regions first and excluding where the real revenue is - the capital cities.

The way I see it - it makes more cost sense to roll out a two tier plan.
One to the capital cities and populated areas.
Another less capital intensive one to areas where much fewer people are.

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Gist

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #37 - May 4^th, 2012 at 2:01pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 1:27pm:

Why would you roll out the NBN to people in the countryside first?

I don't know - Governments just seem very poor at making business-based decisions?

You'll never get early or decent payback rolling it to the most underpopulated regions first and excluding where the real revenue is - the capital cities.

The way I see it - it makes more cost sense to roll out a two tier plan.
One to the capital cities and populated areas.
Another less capital intensive one to areas where much fewer people are.

Yeah but nobody in Australia cares about how you do it in that cesspit country you live in. We'll do it our way thanks.

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"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

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FriYAY Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7395	Re: SUBs Verses NBN Reply #38 - May 4^th, 2012 at 2:48pm Johnsmith wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 10:56am: Darwin got shelled by Japan because we were fighting with the good old USA. Besides, we didn't have any subs then either.... and we did OK ... subs aren't a real lot of use against an aerial attack now are they Taken from the Bollocks Book of History……
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FriYAY

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #39 - May 4^th, 2012 at 2:51pm

Gist wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

Oh, and to answer the question (sorry Woody)...

The NBN infrastructure will make all kinds of new industry possible and will do it across Australia, not just in the capital cities. For the first time ever, regional centres could compete on an equal footing, not just with the capital cities but with the rest of the world.

Subs... well... if we could make a good one like the Japs did then maybe we could sell some. But our record so far isn't too good.

Please don't go spare, just asking....what kinds of new industires?

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Gist

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #40 - May 4^th, 2012 at 3:24pm

FriYAY wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 2:51pm:

Gist wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

Oh, and to answer the question (sorry Woody)...

The NBN infrastructure will make all kinds of new industry possible and will do it across Australia, not just in the capital cities. For the first time ever, regional centres could compete on an equal footing, not just with the capital cities but with the rest of the world.

Subs... well... if we could make a good one like the Japs did then maybe we could sell some. But our record so far isn't too good.

Please don't go spare, just asking....what kinds of new industires?

Me? Go spare?? Never!

Well, not for reasonable questions anyway. Wink

But I can't answer it. It's like going back to say the late 1800s and asking then what new industries could spring up by providing decent paved roads across the nation. Horses and carts didn't need them. Well as it turned out, cars and trucks did. What new industries have sprung up from that?

Or a more recent example - who would have imagined 20 years ago that one day we'd have a burgeoning industry to develop websites? There was no web back then except maybe for the US military.

Or who would imagine that someone could make a business out of selling ringtones that play on your phone?

The thing with the NBN is that it provides a huge increase in bandwidth. Todays internet just wasn't possible when we were all on dialup. It was just too friggin' slow. Now look! We have a guy running a politics forum which people can use for free and presumably some or all of the cost is met by income from ads.

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"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

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FriYAY

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #41 - May 4^th, 2012 at 3:48pm

Gist wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

FriYAY wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 2:51pm:

Gist wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

Oh, and to answer the question (sorry Woody)...

The NBN infrastructure will make all kinds of new industry possible and will do it across Australia, not just in the capital cities. For the first time ever, regional centres could compete on an equal footing, not just with the capital cities but with the rest of the world.

Subs... well... if we could make a good one like the Japs did then maybe we could sell some. But our record so far isn't too good.

Please don't go spare, just asking....what kinds of new industires?

Me? Go spare?? Never!

Well, not for reasonable questions anyway. Wink

But I can't answer it. It's like going back to say the late 1800s and asking then what new industries could spring up by providing decent paved roads across the nation. Horses and carts didn't need them. Well as it turned out, cars and trucks did. What new industries have sprung up from that?

Or a more recent example - who would have imagined 20 years ago that one day we'd have a burgeoning industry to develop websites? There was no web back then except maybe for the US military.

Or who would imagine that someone could make a business out of selling ringtones that play on your phone?

The thing with the NBN is that it provides a huge increase in bandwidth. Todays internet just wasn't possible when we were all on dialup. It was just too friggin' slow. Now look! We have a guy running a politics forum which people can use for free and presumably some or all of the cost is met by income from ads.

Oh........

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GoddyofOz Gold Member Offline Vote 1 for Sex, cause you're gay if you don't Posts: 2397	Re: SUBs Verses NBN Reply #42 - May 4^th, 2012 at 3:55pm Considering Labor mauled Defence to make up their surplus funds, I think the Subs aren't really high on the agenda. Also, f*ck complacency. We can afford to have both.
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longweekend58

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #43 - May 4^th, 2012 at 5:00pm

Gist wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 3:24pm:

FriYAY wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 2:51pm:

Gist wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

Oh, and to answer the question (sorry Woody)...

The NBN infrastructure will make all kinds of new industry possible and will do it across Australia, not just in the capital cities. For the first time ever, regional centres could compete on an equal footing, not just with the capital cities but with the rest of the world.

Subs... well... if we could make a good one like the Japs did then maybe we could sell some. But our record so far isn't too good.

Please don't go spare, just asking....what kinds of new industires?

Me? Go spare?? Never!

Well, not for reasonable questions anyway. Wink

But I can't answer it. It's like going back to say the late 1800s and asking then what new industries could spring up by providing decent paved roads across the nation. Horses and carts didn't need them. Well as it turned out, cars and trucks did. What new industries have sprung up from that?

Or a more recent example - who would have imagined 20 years ago that one day we'd have a burgeoning industry to develop websites? There was no web back then except maybe for the US military.

Or who would imagine that someone could make a business out of selling ringtones that play on your phone?

The thing with the NBN is that it provides a huge increase in bandwidth. Todays internet just wasn't possible when we were all on dialup. It was just too friggin' slow. Now look! We have a guy running a politics forum which people can use for free and presumably some or all of the cost is met by income from ads.

he asked what new industries would spring up and you gave him NOTHING. ans nobody ever does becasue there wont be anything new.

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Gist

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Re: SUBs Verses NBN
Reply #44 - May 4^th, 2012 at 5:29pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 4^th, 2012 at 5:00pm:

he asked what new industries would spring up and you gave him NOTHING. ans nobody ever does becasue there wont be anything new.

So your ban is over eh? For now... won't be long until another one! Cheesy

Oh and yeah, you're right. There's no such thing as innovation in rightyretardworld where you reign supreme. Just like there's infinite supplies of oil.

However most of us live on planet Earth, not in rightyretardworld.

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"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

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