Australian Politics Forum - Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax

Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally Reply #45 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:27pm Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:26pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:09pm: So "sod them, they deserve it" eh? No system should reward stupidity and stubborn-ness. They should penalise it. No system should ignore the will of the people.
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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally Reply #46 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:28pm Corporate Maggots will continue to be fought, rooted out and they will be stopped.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally Reply #47 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:30pm
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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally Reply #48 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:33pm Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:30pm: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SLHf3U1AbxE/T5kedsCN2kI/AAAAAAABjPQ/7pEd3Wqw7WU/s1600/... Fight Corporate Maggots - Say No To The Nanny State, no to suckhole rule and no to scab labour.
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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #49 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:34pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:26pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:09pm:

So "sod them, they deserve it" eh?

No system should reward stupidity and stubborn-ness. They should penalise it.

And yet, rewarding failure/mediocrity/victimhood/stupidity is what the egalitarian left is based on.

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In the fullness of time...

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally Reply #50 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:34pm If corporate Maggots are running your Government, your country is in a lot of trouble.
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borntorule

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #51 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:39pm

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of weak knees will do that.

History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all.

Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

History says nothing of the sort, except about left wing governments in the 70s.
The Hawke/Keating government lasted 13 years (longer than Howard) because, on the whole, they were competent.

History, context and facts tend to confuse people from the left.

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Grey

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #52 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:43pm

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:43pm:

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of weak knees will do that.

History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all.

Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

Fair summary there Grey.

While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again. Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in.

For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder.

Workchoices is the choice you make when you don't want to go the way of Greece and half of Europe.

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Soren

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #53 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:45pm

corporate_whitey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:34pm:

If corporate Maggots are running your Government, your country is in a lot of trouble. Cool

Unions being corporations, this is true for Australia today.

Labor is much more corporatist on this account than the Libs.
The Australian Chamber of Commerce or the Business Council of AUstralia or the boards of the big banks are not affiliates of the Liberal Party.
All the big unions and the ACTU are explicitly, financially and organisationally, officially Labor affiliates.

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Grey

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #54 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:49pm

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:43pm:

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of weak knees will do that.

History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all.

Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

Fair summary there Grey.

While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again. Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in.

For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder.

Workchoices is the choice you make when you don't want to go the way of Greece and half of Europe.

A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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corporate_whitey

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #55 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:50pm

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:45pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:34pm:

If corporate Maggots are running your Government, your country is in a lot of trouble. Cool

Unions being corporations, this is true for Australia today.

Labor is much more corporatist on this account than the Libs.
The Australian Chamber of Commerce or the Business Council of AUstralia or the boards of the big banks are not affiliates of the Liberal Party.
All the big unions and the ACTU are explicitly, financially and organisationally, officially Labor affiliates.

Corporate maggots want to drive down wages and conditions...why? Because they think they are entitled to, they want to import cheap Goods from asia and skilled migrants...why, because they are bludgers who do not want to pay the full price of production and think they are entitled not to. We have been letting these mediocre idiots run this country, its industry and its infrastructure into the ground long enough - time to go suckholes. Cheesy

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borntorule

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #56 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 3:23pm

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:49pm:

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:43pm:

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of weak knees will do that.

History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all.

Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

Fair summary there Grey.

While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again. Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in.

For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder.

Workchoices is the choice you make when you don't want to go the way of Greece and half of Europe.

A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy.

Hmmm... I think you missed a few points. Workers not paying their taxes - as much as 30% - is a big part of it. Retirement at 57 is unaffordable. And the reson so many Greeks live outside of Greece? Because the lazy ones stay there and the rest leave to make a career and a life.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #57 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 3:59pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:27pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:26pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:09pm:

So "sod them, they deserve it" eh?

No system should reward stupidity and stubborn-ness. They should penalise it.

No system should ignore the will of the people.

No system should be poll driven.

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Soren

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #58 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 5:19pm

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:49pm:

A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy.

Greek workers wages and benefits are too high. They are unproductive. They don't produce enough to cover their own expenses.

And they are corrupt. And have an entitlement mentality.

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corporate_whitey

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #59 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 5:27pm

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 5:19pm:

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:49pm:

A completely idiotic take on the problems of Greece and Europe generally. The Greek economy is up shyte creek; but the cause is not workers wages being to high. The cause is corruption at the top and all the way down to PAYE taxpayers who are now rightly rioting rather than bear the burden for the greedy.

Greek workers wages and benefits are too high. They are unproductive. They don't produce enough to cover their own expenses.

And they are corrupt. And have an entitlement mentality.

Too many spongers in the global economy want the rich lifestyle and want us to give it to them. Cool

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