Australian Politics Forum - Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax

Soren

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #30 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:40pm

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

That's the thing about anarchists - they live in contradictions. By your reckoning, weak-kneed left wing governments cause the much longer lasting Thatcher and Reagan and Bush and Abbott backlash. Yet you think weak-kneed left wing governments are a good thing.

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Guildford

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #31 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:41pm

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of weak knees will do that.

History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all.

Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

PM Keating's Government ?

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #32 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:43pm

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of weak knees will do that.

History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all.

Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

Fair summary there Grey.

While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again. Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in.

For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #33 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:45pm

borntorule wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:32pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:16am:

There has been a massive overreaction to the carbon tax. Everyone knows that. So she has two choices:

1) Legitimise this overreaction by backing down.

2) Exposed the over-reaction as the lies it is, but sticking with it.

I fancy she has the best shot at taking number 2. But she will fight a mountain of vested interest opposition, and liberal party puppets which means its not going to be an easy road.

Either way, she'll either lose the election, or lose the leadership, but carbon pricing will eventually come (as the GST eventually came), so better for labor long term to make the correct call now, so the future judges them well. (even if it means defeat at the next election).

It's an 'over-reaction' by YOUR opinion only. That is hardly a statement of great import. Since the statistics show that 2/3 of the population oppose the Carbon Tax then it is anything BUT an over-reaction.

I think you misunderstand the terminology. The "reaction" is that 2/3 think its bad. The reality is that most wont even notice it when it comes in. Therefore the reaction is an over-reaction.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #34 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:03pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:45pm:

borntorule wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:32pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:16am:

There has been a massive overreaction to the carbon tax. Everyone knows that. So she has two choices:

1) Legitimise this overreaction by backing down.

2) Exposed the over-reaction as the lies it is, but sticking with it.

I fancy she has the best shot at taking number 2. But she will fight a mountain of vested interest opposition, and liberal party puppets which means its not going to be an easy road.

Either way, she'll either lose the election, or lose the leadership, but carbon pricing will eventually come (as the GST eventually came), so better for labor long term to make the correct call now, so the future judges them well. (even if it means defeat at the next election).

It's an 'over-reaction' by YOUR opinion only. That is hardly a statement of great import. Since the statistics show that 2/3 of the population oppose the Carbon Tax then it is anything BUT an over-reaction.

I think you misunderstand the terminology. The "reaction" is that 2/3 think its bad. The reality is that most wont even notice it when it comes in. Therefore the reaction is an over-reaction.

It will raise cost of living by a minimum of $1,000.
To families with mortgage stress, already high bills, children to send to school, uncertain employment - they sure as hell will notice it.

In Australia my family would receive $3 on tax break compensation and $1,000+ in cost of living increase.

Dunno about you, but I kinda notice $1k when I get nothing back for it.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #35 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:07pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:03pm:

It will raise cost of living by a minimum of $1,000.
To families with mortgage stress, already high bills, children to send to school, uncertain employment - they sure as hell will notice it.

In Australia my family would receive $3 on tax break compensation and $1,000+ in cost of living increase.

Dunno about you, but I kinda notice $1k when I get nothing back for it.

You are bound for jail anyway after your fraudulant activities in the US, so this will be the least of your worries.

The vast majority of Australian families will get $1000 is compo via reduced taxation, and those few that dont have only themselves to blame. Call it a tax on "denialists" who refused to prepare.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally Reply #36 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:09pm So "sod them, they deserve it" eh? And I wonder if people still wonder why the ALP support has fallen off a precipice?
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corporate_whitey

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #37 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:15pm

Governments are not given mandates to do what they like when they get into power as this Government is finding out. The world is not a playground for brown nosers and petty tyrants who think they are entitled and born to rule. They are accountable and I have been fighting corporate maggots for over a decade because thats what I do. Cool

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World Wide Working Class Struggle

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally Reply #38 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:18pm Abbott would be a maniac to try to go near work choices or further erode working conditions - he will be fought. He will be defeated, the age of entitlement and corporate maggots is over.
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Soren

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #39 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:18pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:43pm:

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of weak knees will do that.

History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all.

Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

Fair summary there Grey.

While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again. Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in.

For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder.

Workchoices is the choice you make when you don't want to go the way of Greece and half of Europe.

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally Reply #40 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:20pm We go the way of Greece is we lay down to corporate maggots and incompetent suckholes and thats just not going to happen any more - no more free ride for brown nosers.
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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally Reply #41 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:21pm The time has come for Australians to rise up and say enough is enough!
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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #42 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:24pm

Soren wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:43pm:

Grey wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 12:12pm:

It's a weak government. That's their problem. With an overwhelming mandate Rudd blew the climate change agenda because he couldn't take the opposition pressure. Then they blew the mining tax because they couldn't take the pressure from a handful of billionaires. Now they're expected to blow off the carbon tax. I doubt that even this bunch of weak knees will do that.

History says that Labour governments reform, bring in god measures that last and people like, but lose elections because of the opposition from vested interests. If they cave in to vested interests over reform they might as well not be there at all.

Weak kneed left wing governments are much better than gung ho Right Wing ones. God help Australia when we get our George Bush moment under Tony Abbott.

Fair summary there Grey.

While people may vote in Abbott for the current topics (carbon tax, refo's, thompson), what they will get is workchoices again. Workchoices is like the GST, the liberals will take two goes to get it in, but the will get it in.

For some reason, the richest country in the world will have to work harder.

Workchoices is the choice you make when you don't want to go the way of Greece and half of Europe.

but do want to go the way of the US.

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally
Reply #43 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:25pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 11:42am:

- the Greens core support is not affected by and large by the carbon tax.

Labor's is.

That's why Labor's support has fallen off a cliff whereas the Greens have held steady.

BIG INCREASE - at the STATE level ...

buzzanddidj wrote on May 1^st, 2012 at 11:13am:

Newspoll shows a marked increase in the Greens' primary vote since the 2010 election - up from 11.2 per cent to 17 per cent.

The Greens' vote climbed from 14 per cent to 17 per cent in the latest survey.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/double-blow-as-b...

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

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Doctor Jolly Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3808	Re: Gillard, dump the Carbon Tax - Keneally Reply #44 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:26pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 1:09pm: So "sod them, they deserve it" eh? No system should reward stupidity and stubborn-ness. They should penalise it.
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